Agriculture Committee on Nov. 24th, 2011

[Virginia Labbie]

We partner with an online university, and we actually offer our members a number of online business courses that they can take on business management, succession planning, farm safety—those various business issues. Basically, a lot of business issues apply to our farm members, and they certainly can take advantage of our member programs that we have in online training. Most of our members are very technology savvy so they can take advantage of those things.

We also offer a network of business resource counsellors across the country who help our members through some of these things and provide them the succession guide and some advice on moving forward. Certainly we don't provide accounting advice or anything, but we provide the tools to get them started on some of these difficult discussions, as you've mentioned.

[Pierre Lemieux, Conservative, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Let me ask one last question. What do you see the government's role being in this area? Do you see the government as having a role? Do you think we should leave it to, for example, the CFIB and perhaps the organizations that represent farmers to promote business acumen within the farm community? What is your view on that?

[Virginia Labbie]

I think we all have a role to play, and certainly on the succession file it's more important that we're all on the same page on this, that we all plan for a successful transfer, because four out of ten farmers plan to exit their business in the next ten years. That is a big number, and that really is going to impact the success of the industry.

It's everyone's responsibility, farm groups as well as government, to promote that. In our survey and in the information that we'll be providing you, we actually found that a number of our members are using more and more the services of consultants. That is probably an avenue that can provide some of those services as well, but it is something that we all need to be promoting as an industry, to make sure the industry is successful moving forward.

[Pierre Lemieux, Conservative, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Actually we had some witnesses here who represented consultants who provide that kind of advice, and we had a good discussion on that. That's a good point.

Thank you, Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

Go ahead, Virginia, if you want to finish a comment.

[Virginia Labbie]

We worked with the Canadian Association of Farm Advisors as well on a succession guide specifically for farms, so there are those folks out there who are doing that groundwork so they can provide that service as well.

We'll certainly be encouraging our members. We've been on this issue of succession for a number of years, and we will continue to encourage our members to get that plan in place, to have those difficult discussions, and move forward.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

Thank you very much.

We'll now move to Mr. Rousseau, for five minutes.

[Jean Rousseau, NDP, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

Thanks, Mr. Chair.

I would like each of you to take turns answering my first question.

You all talked a lot about the high cost of inputs. We know that the price of oil will remain high. The regulations also saddle our Canadian farmers with a rather high administrative cost. What needs to be done, under Growing Forward 2, in terms of marketing and developing a brand strategy for small businesses and family farms? Family farms are truly a part of Canada's identity. They are part of the life of many communities across the country. I'm very worried about the future of small businesses in farming.

I would like to hear your thoughts on that, starting with Mr. Mann, please.

[James Mann]

Thank you for the question.

There is a tremendous amount of niche branding and individual initiatives on many of our farms doing all kinds of things, right from the organic sector to raising pumpkins—just lots of opportunity. Providing an environment that allows that to be stimulated is very important, but I can't over-emphasize the importance of farmers and cooperatives and governments working together to brand Canada.

I know there have been programs and efforts to do that, but we haven't reached the threshold level where we've really been able to do something with it. I would encourage the government to find ways of doing that, because we have opportunities sitting on our doorstep that we're really not taking advantage of. I spend half my life travelling around the world, and everybody loves Canada, but how do you get Canada...? It's a question we need to answer.

[Jean Rousseau, NDP, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

Mr. Phillips, please.

[Richard Phillips]

As was mentioned, the farmers want to make their living. We don't want a cheque from the government and to have to rely on that. Most farmers are very entrepreneurial, so whatever can be done, like the professional skills development on how to start a new business, those sorts of training and extension work—those are valuable pieces. I might have a great idea, but how do I get into the pumpkin market if I've never grown pumpkins before?

There are roles for that sort of extension in business services, and the government has some role to play in helping to provide that. They do that today through business centres, but it's been a while since we've been consulted on what should be updated—is it modern, is it current, and what is the Federation of Independent Business doing? Is there some innovative stuff out there? In terms of helping us, that is one area that is a place to help.

[Jean Rousseau, NDP, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

Mr. Petersen, please.

[Trevor Petersen]

I guess what I need for my farm is help in creating the new markets. So many markets out there are untapped, but we don't have the ability or the capacity to access some of them with current programs. There has to be such a huge volume a lot of the time to access some of the smaller niche markets. I work with a marketer to market my crops, and he's just waiting for the day that the new system is in place so he can start bringing containers onto farms. We fill them with our own wheat or our own barley, they get hauled to the railroads, they go to the coast, and they're on a ship to a small market somewhere in Asia, or whatever the case may be. But under the current system it always has to be volume. You can't fill volume with small niche markets.

We were in a small town just outside of Vegas where there's a little brewery. The brewer is dying to get some Alberta product in his small brewery, but he has to go to other entities in the U.S. He can sneak it down; he's admitted he's been able to get some Alberta barley for his micro-brewery.

There are so many examples like that, and we just can't tap them under our current system.

[Jean Rousseau, NDP, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

Thank you.

Dr. Surgeoner.

[Dr. Gord Surgeoner]

To me there are two kinds of markets. One is the local market, and to me that's the purview of the provinces. For example, in Ontario, Foodland Ontario is one of the most recognized signs out there. In the city of Toronto, for example, where our small farms are getting smaller and are surrounded because of the cost of the land, and the way we produce is being challenged, we have created the Greater Toronto Area Agricultural Action Committee, and they're working with co-ops, stores and things like that. That's one world.

The other world is sending it to China or the Soviet Union, etc., and there I think this consistent message to bring in Canada is, “Quality is in our Nature”. This should be our message that we repeat over and over again, but I want to emphasize that we must make sure that people delivering those products meet some standard, because it'll take one bad incident to destroy all the good.

[Jean Rousseau, NDP, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

Do we have time for Ms. Labbie?

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

Certainly.

[Jean Rousseau, NDP, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

Could you answer?

[Virginia Labbie]

From our perspective, and certainly our farm members' perspective, branding is extremely important for any product they're producing. Again I must focus on the fact that the regulatory environment does hinder some of our members in terms of bringing products to market.

I'll give you an example. It's not an agriculture-related example, but a lady last year who we highlighted during Red Tape Awareness Week, made teddy bears stuffed with rice. Our current regulatory system does not allow her business to stuff these teddy bears with rice, for some reason or other. It's silly. It's those kind of things. She was going to be marketing them, but she wasn't allowed to. I believe the problem has finally been solved after months and months of working on this issue.

We've got to get to the point where we're streamlining that regulatory environment, making sure that regulations are in place for a good reason—food safety is extremely important—but making sure it's a little easier for our folks to bring those products to market.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

Thank you very much.

I now move to Mr. Lobb for five minutes.

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

Thanks, Mr. Chair.

The first question is for Ms. Labbie. In your presentation you talked about the adjustment to the capital cost allowance. I was wondering what rate you would propose and what you would include and exclude to adjust the CCA.

[Virginia Labbie]

Our recommendations in our federal pre-budget submission focused...a first step would be around class 8 and class 10 agricultural equipment, things like combines, tractors, those kinds of things. We know that our farm members are making huge investments in capital. Currently, the capital cost allowance for those is 20% and 30% respectively, for class 8 and class 10. Other groups have also proposed this, but we would increase it by 10% on each of those, if possible, improving that so we're a little more competitive with the United States. We'd be happy to provide you with more information on that at a later date, if you'd like.

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

Just so I'm clear, up 10% would be from 20% to 22% and 30% to 33%, or is that from 20% to 30% and 30% to 40%?

[Virginia Labbie]

It's 20% to 30% and 30% to 40%, yes.

That's an example that has been brought forward, but certainly we need to have a look at that. We know our members are spending a lot of money on capital investments, and that would be a good place to start.

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

My next question is for Mr. Surgeoner.

This question is a little theoretical, a little ethical. The population of the world is over 7 billion now, and continuing to climb. You've been in research for 30 years at the academic level. Is it ethical, in your opinion, for governments to fund research for agri-industry when we know there's a hungry world out there, or is it part of growing the pie and moving the bar forward?