Evidence of meeting #16 for Agriculture and Agri-Food in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was farmers.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Gregory Aziz  Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, National Steel Car Limited
Michael Hugh Nicholson  Executive Vice-President, Marketing, Sales and Quality, National Steel Car Limited
Marion Wrobel  Vice-President, Policy and Operations, Canadian Bankers Association
Greg Stewart  President and Chief Executive Officer, Farm Credit Canada
Bertrand Montel  Market Segment Manager, Agriculture, National Bank, Canadian Bankers Association
David Rinneard  National Manager, Agriculture, BMO Bank of Montreal, Canadian Bankers Association
Peter Brown  Director, Agriculture, Scotiabank, Canadian Bankers Association
Lyndon Carlson  Senior Vice-President, Marketing, Farm Credit Canada
George Da Pont  President, Canadian Food Inspection Agency

3:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Larry Miller

We'll call our meeting to order and thank our witnesses for being here today, all of you. This is one of the bigger delegations we've had in a while, but thank you.

As you probably know by now, the minister is coming for the last half of this meeting, so if it would be possible, I'm going to ask all of you to keep your presentations to about seven minutes, rather than the normal ten. I think most of them are in hard copy that the members will get anyway, and it would just leave a little more time for questioning. So if you can accommodate that, we'd appreciate it.

Because there's a PowerPoint, we're going to start with National Steel Car.

Mr. Aziz, we'll turn it over to you if that's okay.

3:30 p.m.

Gregory Aziz Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, National Steel Car Limited

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I'm Gregory Aziz, chairman and CEO of National Steel Car from Hamilton, Ontario. With me are Hugh Nicholson, executive vice-president of marketing, sales and quality; Lorraine Johnson, our chief operating officer; and Leigh Scott, our regional vice-president of marketing and sales.

We're here today to present a dynamic solution through a new fleet of rail grain-handling equipment, which will go a great distance in solving the problems of the grain supply chain in western Canada.

If you'll look at the next slide, you'll see that National Steel Car is headquartered in Hamilton, Ontario. It was founded in 1912. We are the world leader in rail freight design, engineering, and manufacture. Over the last 12 years we've invested approximately $350 million in capital investment in robotics and automated manufacturing equipment and techniques. We occupy a 75-acre site in Hamilton, Ontario, which is approximately two million square feet. We employ more than 1,900 people and are the second largest private employer in Hamilton.

We have the capacity to produce more than 15,000 cars annually, and we manufacture all types of rail cars, with the exception of tank car equipment. We are the only rail car builder in North America certified to ISO 9001:2008.

3:30 p.m.

Michael Hugh Nicholson Executive Vice-President, Marketing, Sales and Quality, National Steel Car Limited

As the Canadian farmers sell their grains into a competitive global market, one of the biggest impediments to their success is the inefficiency of the current grain car fleet.

The most effective way to enhance the competitive position of Canada's grain farmers is to replace the existing Canadian grain car fleet, as it is past its useful life—obsolete and inefficient, from a variety of standpoints. The design is outdated. It provides a lower carrying capacity. There are inefficiencies in the loading and unloading. The dimensional envelope is outdated. As a result of the age of the cars, there's a high cost of maintenance and repairs because of obsolete parts.

This is our vision of a competitive solution for the Canadian agriculture industry.

Some of the key benefits to the grain producers are a 23% increase in the capacity. There's greater efficiency in performance through the entire supply chain and there's a lower carbon footprint for the sector.

With respect to the statistics comparing the new fleet to the existing fleet, we refer to gross rail load, GRL. That's the maximum load that can be carried on rail, combining the empty weight of a rail car and the loading weight or the payload.

As you'll see with the new fleet of cars, there's a 9% GRL increase. The cars are 4,000 pounds lighter than the existing cars. As a result, there are 27,000 pounds more grain in every rail car.

As a result of the increase in cubic capacity, there's a 15.5% increase. Due to the shorter length of car, there are also nine additional cars for every train start. There's also a 20% increase in the siding capacity as a result of the shorter car.

There are more efficient loading opportunities, and that's good news for farmers.

As I mentioned earlier, there are nine additional cars in every train, again resulting in a reduced carbon footprint.

There are only three discharge gates on the new cars, and that results in a 25% reduction in handling and reduced maintenance.

The average age of the current fleet is over 35 years of age. The new cars are designed for a 50-year life. This results in a 25% increase in the design life and provides for a modern and efficient fleet.

As a result of the additional capacity in the tonnage, there are over 2,800 tonnes more grain moved in every train start. That's a 21% increase.

There's a 23% increase in the overall cubic foot capacity of the train, resulting in over 145,000 cubic feet. The railways are increasing the length of trains all the time, so this improvement provides additional opportunity for extra grain movement.

Our summary of the economic assessment, assuming a three-year program, will result in 2,600 direct jobs. A conservative factor for the number of induced jobs is 10,500.

There will be 285,000 tonnes of steel consumed by this program, and the Canadian content will be 75%.

The supply chain for this program reaches right across Canada, as outlined in this table. I won't review it all, but you'll note the province and the commodity that can be provided.

3:35 p.m.

Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, National Steel Car Limited

Gregory Aziz

In summary, replacing the current obsolete fleet will increase delivery efficiency by moving more grain in each car within each train start. It will enhance the performance of the entire supply chain and lower the carbon footprint for the sector. It will create over 15 million hours of direct employment across Canada; deliver innovation, yielding enhanced competitiveness for all stakeholders; elevate supply chain performance to compete in the 2020 global marketplace; and provide Canada with the most modern grain car fleet in the world.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We'll take questions, if there are any.

3:35 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Larry Miller

Thank you very much.

We'll move on to our other witnesses before questions.

From the Canadian Bankers Association, we have Mr. Brown, Mr. Montel, Mr. Wrobel, and Mr. Rinneard.

Who wants to start? Seven minutes, please.

3:35 p.m.

Marion Wrobel Vice-President, Policy and Operations, Canadian Bankers Association

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

On behalf of the Canadian Bankers Association, its 52 members and 267,000 employees, I would like to thank you very much for the invitation to speak to the committee on the subject of Growing Forward 2, with a particular emphasis on competitiveness. I am here with Peter Brown, Scotiabank; Bertrand Montel, National Bank; and David Rinneard, BMO Bank of Montreal.

We are here to answer your specific questions, so I will keep my comments brief. I will however take a couple of minutes to highlight how we support farmers in rural communities, underpin competitiveness, and promote financial sustainability through our lending, our work on Growing Forward 1—notably AgriInvest—and the importance of relationships.

Banks have a stake in seeing farmers be competitive and succeed. Our bankers, operating in roughly 2,100 rural and small town branches, live and work in the same communities, building and maintaining versatile and durable relationships with farmers. These bankers have made agriculture a priority. Seventeen percent of total funds lent to small and medium-sized enterprises by banks across the country are dedicated to the agricultural sector. That's almost one dollar in five. Our bankers also donate both their business resources and considerable personal time to support local agriculture, associations, clubs, and events. We know as much as anyone that a strong farming sector means a resilient rural community.

Agriculture, more than any other sector of the economy, experiences wide swings in business conditions. In order to help our clients be successful, banks work closely with farmers through those inevitable peaks and troughs, and our record demonstrates that we have done so. This past decade has seen farmers confront BSE, avian influenza, drought, floods, H1N1 virus, and country-of-origin labelling, and we have worked with farmers to find solutions that are sustainable, take their individual situations into account, and that are in their best interests. Sometimes this requires difficult conversations with farmers. Ultimately, however, those conversations are meant to be in the best interest: to preserve the capital and net worth of the farming operation with the objective of ensuring its sustainability. The banking industry works hard in contributing to the long-term viability of the agricultural sector and the rural communities.

For farmers who wish to increase their profitability and build their business, improving competitiveness often means adopting innovative technologies, implementing new business practices, and accessing new markets. Banks supply the tools, advice, and capital support to help farmers accomplish these objectives, while providing them with the peace of mind to support their families.

Recognizing that the family farm is still a vital part of agriculture, on the personal side we help farmers save for their children's education and for their own retirement, through personal financial planning services to help them manage their investments. Banks provide specialized advice, lines of credit, loans and mortgages, and everyday banking needs such as deposit and savings accounts. Customers in rural Canada have access to the same services and prices as customers in Canada's largest cities.

On the business side, banks provide operating and deposit accounts, insurance, investments, one-on-one interaction around the business plans, and financial advice, in addition to operating term and mortgage loans. Banks also work with producers on succession planning to ensure a viable transition to future generations of farmers. Indeed, the industry has developed customized products for succession and transfer of ownership.

I'd like to take a moment to talk about how we underpin competitiveness and promote financial sustainability through our lending. Banks are an important source of capital for agricultural producers to allow them to expand and make their operations more productive. Operating and term loans, including CALA, and mortgages allow producers to buy farm inputs such as seed or feed, purchase machinery and equipment, install green power systems, and make land or building improvements.

Lending decisions are based on an assessment of the borrower's ability to repay the loan—making decisions on an individual case-by-case basis—and based ideally on a well-thought-out business plan. These decisions are balanced with more macro conditions such as the prospects for the business sector the borrower operates in, economic prospects in general, the cost to the bank of raising funds, etc.

Canadian banks have used the same prudent lending practices and excellent risk management systems in agricultural lending as they do in every other line of business. These practices and systems have led to a banking system ranked four years in a row as the most sound in the world by World Economic Forum, and ranked first in the world for financial strength by Moody's Investors Service for two years in a row.

Experiences in other countries have shown that poor risk management is not just bad for lenders; it is bad for borrowers as well, and its negative effects extend into rural communities generally and even the broader economy. The banking system's demands of its clients of a prudent degree of risk mitigation and management is competitiveness-enhancing in and of itself. This discipline allows agricultural producers to be better positioned to deal with the difficulties in the industry and take advantage of the fact that maybe their competitors cannot.

Indeed, over the long term and consistent with our focus on prudent and responsible lending, bank credit has expanded in line with the agricultural sector's growth. Between 2001 and 2010, the provision of bank credit has been consistent with and appropriate for growth of economic output and net operating income in the sector. This largely reflects the fact that about two-thirds of bank lending is for the purposes of working and operating lines of credit. Not only is this lending linked to the level of agricultural activity, but it is also more complex than lending against assets. It requires the bank to truly understand its customers and to work closely with them over time.

The objective of Growing Forward's business risk management programs is to provide protection for different types of losses, as well as to manage cashflow. They are designed to be simple, responsive, predictable, and bankable. As banks, we encourage our clients to participate in available government programs in order to manage market risk that can lead to fluctuations in their farm income. This provides both the client and the lender with the additional level of comfort.

As banking is so heavily relationship-based, working with our clients is essential to understand what is going on with their businesses. As I mentioned a moment ago, our lending decisions are based on an assessment of the borrower's ability to repay the loan. For bankers to make a proper assessment of a business, they weigh a number of factors, including the financial health of the producer, the prospects for the business sector in which the borrower operates, economic prospects in general, and Growing Forward's BRM programs in which the farmer is participating. Not only do banks consider Growing Forward's BRM programs in their credit assessments, but banks directly administer AgriInvest and assist in developing and implementing the federal government's hog industry loan-loss reserve program, HILLRP, to restructure APP loans for hog producers. The AgriInvest program is a savings account for producers offered by banks to provide coverage for small income declines. Once an agricultural producer makes a deposit to an AgriInvest account at a bank, a matching government contribution will be credited to the producer's account.

Banks have invested a tremendous amount of time and resources to assist governments to meet their commitment of offering these savings accounts to producers. While implementing these accounts was not without difficulties, the government engaged the industry early in the process and the lines of communication were open at all times.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Larry Miller

Mr. Wrobel, could you just wrap up?

3:45 p.m.

Vice-President, Policy and Operations, Canadian Bankers Association

Marion Wrobel

Yes, I've just got one sentence left.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Larry Miller

Thank you.

3:45 p.m.

Vice-President, Policy and Operations, Canadian Bankers Association

Marion Wrobel

We were able to build on the strong relationship cultivated with government officials during AgriInvest to implement the HILLRP relatively quickly, in about three and a half months, to the benefit of producers.

Thank you for the opportunity for the CBA to meet with you on your study. We would be pleased to answer any questions you have.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Larry Miller

Thank you very much.

We'll now move to Farm Credit Canada.

Welcome, Mr. Stewart and Mr. Carlson. It's good to see you here again. You have seven minutes.

3:45 p.m.

Greg Stewart President and Chief Executive Officer, Farm Credit Canada

Thank you Mr. Chair.

Good afternoon, honourable members. It is a pleasure to appear before the standing committee on behalf of Farm Credit Canada today. My name is Greg Stewart, and I am the president and CEO of FCC. With me today is Lyndon Carlson, our senior vice-president of marketing.

FCC is a commercial crown corporation, and we deliver financial and business services to the agriculture and agrifood industry. We provide 100,000 customers with financing, equity, management software, information, and learning events tailored to the unique needs of agriculture.

We focus on primary producers as well as suppliers and processors along the full value chain. We have provided more information about FCC in a handout in front of you.

FCC supports the Government of Canada's Growing Forward 2 framework. We concur with the vision of agriculture as an industry led by highly skilled, risk-taking, and forward-looking entrepreneurs who create value for our economy and the world. In a rapidly growing world, a safe and reliable food supply is absolutely critical. Canada will increasingly move to the front of the class, from an agriculture standpoint. By the year 2020, we will be one of only a handful of nations capable of producing enough food to sustain its own citizens, and at the same time we will help feed almost 200 other countries.

How can we further enable competitive enterprises in sectors in Canada? I've grouped my ideas into three themes: farms are getting bigger—and big isn't bad; agriculture management is sophisticated; and innovation and productivity are critical.

The first point concerns farms getting bigger. Agriculture now involves players of all sizes, from small farms to substantial commercial enterprises. It provides one out of eight jobs and employs 2.2 million people. The agriculture and agrifood sector is in fact Canada's largest employer. The industry is a huge part of Canada's GDP and affects the performance of our entire economy. It is big, complex, and of course increasingly diverse. There's a perception in some quarters that the family farm is disappearing and that commercial operations are not really farms anymore. For sure, the size of farms continues to increase, as it has for generations. However, almost all of agricultural operations are still run as family farms, despite their size.

Our mindset needs to shift away from the view that our industry is a tiny boat on a rocky sea needing protection from rough economic waves. Instead, we need to view it as the major multi-billion-dollar engine that it actually is and help agriculture to capitalize on domestic and international opportunities. When inevitable cyclical and other challenges happen, policy and other instruments need to be designed to help all producers weather those storms. As with any other industry, we need to understand that bigger enterprises have very different needs from smaller ones.

Adopting a new mindset regarding the need for both large and small operations needs to happen within the industry itself, with policy makers, and throughout the entire value chain. We waste valuable energy when we think we have to satisfy the naysayers or those who are stuck on the old way of doing things.

An increasing number of successful farmers and agribusiness operators have already adopted this mindset. They do not fret about whether they're too big or too small. They appreciate that there are many different ways to succeed. What they all have in common is a thirst for learning and adopting leading-edge business practices. They need the government and Canadians from all walks of life to view farmers as the sophisticated business people they are.

The second point concerns management sophistication. Today's production advances and technology would have been viewed as science fiction less than a generation ago. Big or small, all farms and agribusinesses must master a demanding and complex mix of management capabilities. In essence, producers are just like any CEO of their own business. In the past, farms were often run with one or two hired hands. They now involve a team and outside specialists and require deep knowledge not only of production methods, but also of marketing, finance, HR, and IT.

Producers need information to acquire and develop skills in these areas. That's how they can leverage their position in the agrifood supply chain, both domestically and internationally. Our agriculture community recognizes the need to learn and innovate. For example, more than 14,000 producers attended our FCC learning forums last year. We have more than 33,000 subscribers to our weekly FCC Express, which according to our research is the most widely read agriculture electronic newsletter in Canada. We have more than 75,000 subscribers to our AgriSuccess magazine, which brings successful farm management stories to life.

That's just what FCC offers. We recognize that relevant, accurate, and timely agricultural information can be found in many places today.

According to the latest five-year data available from Statistics Canada, university enrolment in agricultural programs has increased by 16% in the last five years, with enrollment by women jumping by 19%. You can see that Canadian agriculture is a diverse, complex industry that is attracting some of the best and brightest of both sexes.

Successful farmers understand that knowledge is key to staying on top of sophisticated management practices.

On innovation and productivity, Canadian consumers enjoy some of the least expensive, highest-quality, and safest food in the world. That's directly due to innovation and productivity gains in the agricultural food supply chain.

Broad globalization pressures, a more affluent and larger population in emerging countries, and shifting food preferences at home are generating new opportunities for Canadian agribusinesses. A growing world population needs safe and reliable food sources. Export market opportunities will continue to increase, and at the same time, the emergence of low-cost suppliers in emerging markets is bringing new challenges to the Canadian industry.

Innovation and productivity will remain key drivers of prosperity for the agrifood industry well into the future, and a highly innovative marketplace will continue to yield positive returns for Canadian agribusinesses and households.

Agricultural research shows that high rates of return and continued funding should benefit farmers across Canada. For example, Canadian crop scientists developed canola, which has become one of Canada’s leading cash crops. Tomorrow’s discoveries will be just as vital. It’s as straightforward as remembering that two varieties of the same crop can produce dramatically different yields and profits.

Feeding the world means making sure that Canadian farmers can reap the benefits of the best agriculture science. Innovation and productivity are vital to the future success of the industry. We recognize the outstanding work of groups like Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada, the National Research Council, and the Crop Development Centre, and encourage the government to continue their support.

These are just some good ideas to reach what I believe is the very realistic goal of having the best agricultural economy in the world. This will add jobs and new opportunities for many Canadians.

In closing, agriculture is an incredibly diverse industry. Many sectors are doing very well, as you know, while some are facing challenges. I thank our colleagues in industry and government for their collaboration in addressing some of these challenges. For example, with AAFC and other lenders we worked with hog customers through a difficult period to provide some strategic support through the hog industry loan-loss reserve program, HILLRP. I firmly believe that these efforts helped preserve some of the key current and future businesses in this industry.

FCC is only involved in agriculture, so we are there for our customers through all cycles. That's the philosophy in our customer support program, and FCC recognizes the role we play in helping our customers through difficult economic, weather, and industry circumstances that are not of their making. These efforts are not handouts; they are “hands up” that respect the hard work and initiative that are the cornerstones of Canadian farming operations.

Generally speaking, Canadian financial institutions have done a good job of ensuring that credit is available to Canadian producers and agribusiness operators. All financial institutions have been able to provide affordable credit due to the lower interest rate environment that producers have benefited from with these lower rates. But it remains true for us, as for our competitors, that business is ultimately won and lost on the strengths of customer relationships and customer service.

To attain the vision of agriculture outlined in Growing Forward 2 we need to create a mindset in sync with our desire to have a competitive and successful industry. We need to flip the proportion of the time we talk about opportunity rather than challenge. When I say “we”, I mean all of us—farmers, financial institutions, the media, and the general public. Farming is a demanding business. However, its outlook is brighter than ever before.

FCC's vision panel takes the views of some 9,000 Canadian producers and agribusiness operators. More than three-quarters of those surveyed say their farm or business will be better off in five years.

Farmers, especially the next generation, need to feel proud about this industry. They need guidance counsellors who say, “You are smart and should pursue a career in agriculture.” They need access to capital with acceptable repayment terms and competitive rates that really kick-start their ability to start their own operations. Let’s not forget affordability. Although the perception may be that the cost of food has risen dramatically, the reality is that the overall cost of food, as expressed as a portion of a household’s overall budget, has significantly decreased from a generation ago.

Putting it all together, it tells a compelling story about our industry and its people.

Thank you for the opportunity to speak to you today. I look forward to any questions.

3:55 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Larry Miller

Thanks to all of you for your presentations.

I'd like to remind our members and our witnesses that we're at five-minute rounds, and that includes the questions and the answers. I won't be quite as lenient today because we're restricted to an hour, so I will ask you to try to respect that as much as possible.

Mr. Allen has five minutes.

3:55 p.m.

NDP

Malcolm Allen NDP Welland, ON

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you, folks, for being here.

Let me start with the National Steel Car folks, since you're closest to home for me. Coming from Welland, there are some of our folks who work at your operation in Hamilton.

It's a wonderful plan. Obviously it meets a need. It thinks forward. It gives a new piece, as you've outlined, and it reduces the carbon footprint. It becomes a more efficient car and handles more grain. It's a wonderful thing.

Do you have any orders yet?

3:55 p.m.

Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, National Steel Car Limited

Gregory Aziz

Yes. We're exporting this car to the United States right now.

3:55 p.m.

NDP

Malcolm Allen NDP Welland, ON

So you get orders from the U.S.?

3:55 p.m.

Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, National Steel Car Limited

3:55 p.m.

NDP

Malcolm Allen NDP Welland, ON

Do you get orders up here from CN or CP?

3:55 p.m.

Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, National Steel Car Limited

Gregory Aziz

Not currently.

3:55 p.m.

NDP

Malcolm Allen NDP Welland, ON

Not currently? Do you have any suggestions for this?

The first thing that came into my mind was this suggestion. There's a cash for clunkers program when it comes to automobiles, so maybe we need a cash for clunkers program for grain-handling equipment. We'd get rid of some of those producer cars that are out there.

3:55 p.m.

Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, National Steel Car Limited

Gregory Aziz

Well, there's no doubt.... That's a prescient observation. I mean, this rail system that currently exists will be broken within the next three to five years, and speed to market is vitally important to all of the stakeholders.

My colleague from Farm Credit has just gone through a very detailed dissertation on how the system works on the farm. We all know about that, but the fact of the matter is that once this grain is produced, it's the best grain in the world—we know that as well—and it needs to be sent somewhere. It needs to be sent to market. This current system will break in the very, very short term.

3:55 p.m.

NDP

Malcolm Allen NDP Welland, ON

Are you optimistic that in this country you're going to see orders you can actually fill, rather than seeing an order book fill up from the U.S. and then having Canadian operators turn to you and say they need them as well, and you having to say to them that they're going to have to wait?

3:55 p.m.

Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, National Steel Car Limited

Gregory Aziz

No, we wouldn't do that.

What needs to happen here is a very detailed investigation of what we're proposing. This is a tremendous opportunity for Canada. It's a tremendous opportunity for the whole supply chain, from the farm right to the port of export, or if it's being moved domestically in North America, so that this product gets to market with great dispatch.

Speed to market is very, very important, not only to the farmers but also to the handlers. We need to introduce this efficiency. This is an opportunity to essentially leapfrog Canada's competitors in world markets.

3:55 p.m.

NDP

Malcolm Allen NDP Welland, ON

I couldn't agree more, by the way.

Oddly enough, in the presentation you outlined actually where the components are sourced.

3:55 p.m.

Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, National Steel Car Limited

Gregory Aziz

Yes, sir.