Evidence of meeting #26 for Agriculture and Agri-Food in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was consumers.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Sayara Thurston  Campaigner, Humane Society International/Canada
Rex Newkirk  Director, Research and Business Development, Canadian International Grains Institute
Justin Taylor  Vice-President, Labour and Supply, Canadian Restaurant and Foodservices Association
Christine Moore  Vice-President, Supply Chain, Unified Purchasing Group of Canada Inc., Canadian Restaurant and Foodservices Association
Bruce Cran  President, Consumers' Association of Canada

4:10 p.m.

Campaigner, Humane Society International/Canada

Sayara Thurston

Some of those examples were mandatory. If you look at parts of Australia and also the European Union, you see mandatory labelling of cage eggs. That's had a really significant impact on sales of cage-free eggs.

I think that just makes it very clear that consumers, once they have that extra information on the products they're buying, will go for a more humane method of production. Polling indicates that consumers do care about the methods of production of eggs and pork. When they have that information, they will favour a more humanely produced product.

4:10 p.m.

NDP

Alex Atamanenko NDP British Columbia Southern Interior, BC

Thank you.

Mr. Newkirk, I didn't forget you. We've had this whole debate on genetically modified organisms at this committee, we had my bill, and we had other motions. Obviously, the consumer dictates what we export or what we sell in our country, and I'm just wondering if your institute had any role to play in stopping genetically modified wheat in the 1990s when it was out there.

Do you see yourself being an active partner, for example, if this genetically modified wheat is about to be introduced, to try to make sure that whatever happens those people who now rely on our high quality of wheat do not shut those markets down, much the same as we've seen in flax and what we may see also in alfalfa? I'm just wondering if you have any position or stance on GMOs.

4:15 p.m.

Director, Research and Business Development, Canadian International Grains Institute

Dr. Rex Newkirk

Basically speaking, we work with the consumers, the processors...to make sure the products are meeting their needs, and mostly from a quality perspective, looking at how they can extract the most product out of it and how they can make it turn into a product their consumer wants.

On the GMO side of it, we haven't engaged in that. It's quite politically motivated, quite politically driven, so we haven't been involved in that. It was turned down in the 1990s. We were not involved in that, other than that we had an understanding of what some of the consumers were looking for and what some of their concerns might have been at that time, so we could certainly relay that back, because we worked with those buyers.

We would do the same thing today. If we see the potential that some markets could be lost, we would relay that to people who would look at that, and they would have to weigh the costs and the benefits—so if we lose some markets in one place, what is the cost of that versus the increased cost of production in Canada because we haven't adopted that technology? But we don't engage too closely in the political process of it or in the process of whether it's right or wrong.

Basically, we just work with customers. If a product is introduced that is genetically modified, we will work with the customers around the world so they understand what the benefits are and what the risks are, so they're clear, and do an unbiased process as best we can.

4:15 p.m.

NDP

Alex Atamanenko NDP British Columbia Southern Interior, BC

Thank you.

Do I have any more time, Mr. Chair?

4:15 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Larry Miller

No, you're out of time.

4:15 p.m.

NDP

Alex Atamanenko NDP British Columbia Southern Interior, BC

Oh, I was going to ask Mr. Cran a question, but that'll have to wait.

4:15 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Larry Miller

Mr. Zimmer, you have five minutes.

4:15 p.m.

Conservative

Bob Zimmer Conservative Prince George—Peace River, BC

Thanks.

Thanks for coming.

I'll start off my questions with Christine.

For the benefit of the committee—some of us are new—I'd like to know what restaurants you represent as an organization.

4:15 p.m.

Vice-President, Supply Chain, Unified Purchasing Group of Canada Inc., Canadian Restaurant and Foodservices Association

Christine Moore

I work for the franchisees, the restaurant owners of KFC, Pizza Hut, and Taco Bell—small business owners.

4:15 p.m.

Conservative

Bob Zimmer Conservative Prince George—Peace River, BC

Okay, those big franchises.

4:15 p.m.

Vice-President, Supply Chain, Unified Purchasing Group of Canada Inc., Canadian Restaurant and Foodservices Association

4:15 p.m.

Conservative

Bob Zimmer Conservative Prince George—Peace River, BC

I would differ from my colleague. The question I would have, in terms of consumer demands, is this. I've heard some concerns, especially locally from some of my constituents, in terms of poultry and supply of Canadian poultry to supply Canadian restaurants. Specifically, it's about the longevity of the Canadian supply.

Can you elaborate on those concerns?

4:15 p.m.

Vice-President, Supply Chain, Unified Purchasing Group of Canada Inc., Canadian Restaurant and Foodservices Association

Christine Moore

Definitely.

Regarding our product, our specified bird size, it's getting the farmer to want to grow it and the processor to want to convert it to our product. That's why right now I'm being capped in some markets where I want to buy something, and they're saying, “I don't have birds”. The franchisee concern is that he wants to grow his business, sell more product, have more consumers coming into his shop, and he might not have the product to service them.

4:15 p.m.

Conservative

Bob Zimmer Conservative Prince George—Peace River, BC

Okay.

What I'd like to do is more of a long-term outlook. You have a short-term issue right now, in terms of supply. The reason why this came up to me is that my local restaurateurs said they were forced to buy birds offshore because they didn't have supply from Canada. More in terms of meeting consumer demands—Canadian demands—for the long term, what do you see? What is the current issue now? How much of a shortage do we see? In the long term, how much of an issue do you think that's going to be? Short term versus long term.

4:15 p.m.

Vice-President, Supply Chain, Unified Purchasing Group of Canada Inc., Canadian Restaurant and Foodservices Association

Christine Moore

It's a problem today; it'll be a problem five years from now. As the farmers want to grow larger birds to maximize their RROI, it's just going to get worse, especially as genetics and everything else get involved, and as the birds can do a feed conversion faster to keep them in-barn, it's going to become a bigger issue, longer.

4:15 p.m.

Conservative

Bob Zimmer Conservative Prince George—Peace River, BC

How much short are you per year, would you say, though, of birds with the current system the way it is? Do you have a number?

4:15 p.m.

Vice-President, Supply Chain, Unified Purchasing Group of Canada Inc., Canadian Restaurant and Foodservices Association

Christine Moore

I don't have a number per se. No, I can't sit here and give a firm number.

4:20 p.m.

Conservative

Bob Zimmer Conservative Prince George—Peace River, BC

I just wonder how dramatic an issue this is for KFC specifically. Is it a 1% issue, is it a 10% issue, or is it much...in terms of gravity of the issue?

4:20 p.m.

Vice-President, Supply Chain, Unified Purchasing Group of Canada Inc., Canadian Restaurant and Foodservices Association

Christine Moore

It's growing on our radar. It has become a strategic element to develop in our business plan going forward, how we are going to support the business. I don't want to put a per cent to it because each region could be different, but it's a growing concern and it definitely has the ears of every franchisee, as well as the franchisor. Availability of supply is our number one concern.

4:20 p.m.

Conservative

Bob Zimmer Conservative Prince George—Peace River, BC

With that in mind—and our position is to support supply management—do you see a solution within supply management to address those concerns? Do you have a solution to the problem? It's one thing to say there's a problem. Do you have an answer? You must have thought of different ways to solve it.

4:20 p.m.

Vice-President, Supply Chain, Unified Purchasing Group of Canada Inc., Canadian Restaurant and Foodservices Association

Christine Moore

You know, we talk about supply management on what I refer to as the “macro” level, where you're talking kilos. Let's talk about it at a micro level and tell me how many kilos per size of bird I'm going to get. Right now, when you throw something out and say, “A million kilos”, of course I'm going to do the million kilos I want to do. That farmer does not have to do what I want, as the customer.

So I think we need to make sure that the customer's needs are met first and foremost, and just not, “I hit the kilo”, the magic number I had to hit that month.

I think that would be one.

4:20 p.m.

Conservative

Bob Zimmer Conservative Prince George—Peace River, BC

Okay.

Justin, did you have a comment?

4:20 p.m.

Vice-President, Labour and Supply, Canadian Restaurant and Foodservices Association

Justin Taylor

I just want to clarify that Chris and I deal inside supply management, so we're talking kilos. There is a number that's decided at a national level for how many kilograms of chicken will be raised for every period. Every eight weeks, Chris and I attend a meeting to give our input on what we think consumers want and how much our restaurants will be buying. That number is set at a kilo level, and then it's split up by province.

Chris is having significant trouble getting birds in the right province to supply her restaurants. Also, because production is set at the kilogram level, restaurants sell chicken by piece, so farmers are incented to grow very large birds because they're the most profitable. But when you go to one of Chris's restaurants, they don't weigh your chicken first before selling it. They're sold by piece.

So there's a big disconnect between the producers not producing the types of chickens that can be sold in our restaurants versus the types of chickens they're paid for and get a guaranteed price for under supply management.

4:20 p.m.

Conservative

Bob Zimmer Conservative Prince George—Peace River, BC

I guess the solution, you would suggest, is that supply management should have a certain size of bird included with the kilograms as part of the criteria.

4:20 p.m.

Vice-President, Labour and Supply, Canadian Restaurant and Foodservices Association

Justin Taylor

We think if we change the incentive so that producers are incented to grow what consumers want, as opposed to what an archaic formula that was decided a long time ago dictates, that would be one step.

The other thing that would be important to do would be to make sure that growers in the regions of Canada that have booming populations are able to grow enough chicken to meet that demand. The restaurant industry does not think it's a good idea to be shipping chickens across the country. It reduces the shelf life and it introduces all these other risks, expenses, and logistics, when the only reason we're not growing that bird in the same province and supplying it locally is supply management.