Agriculture Committee on Oct. 20th, 2011

[Francine Raynault, NDP, Joliette, QC]

My question is for Mr. Sardinha.

You said earlier that for three years now pathologists have not been replaced. What does that mean for research? What can we do to replace those researchers? What can you suggest we do to replace them, so that we have the necessary expertise to plan our responses to climate change? What do you suggest?

[Joe Sardinha]

Thank you for that question.

Certainly we do need a pathologist in Summerland, particularly because we do have such a horticultural focus at the Summerland Agricultural Research Centre site.

The Okanagan is known not only for tree fruits but for wine grapes. It has built up quite a reputation for those now, so there are certainly pathology needs there for that industry as well.

I'm just wondering how much longer we'll go without a researcher, because I can recall in the past some very important work done by the individual who did retire.

I would only suggest that if we were having trouble attracting candidates from Canadian universities for this position that we look to foreign universities, because a lot of tremendous expertise can come from foreign countries, and in a lot of cases those individuals are also from countries that learn English. So they're coming as ready-made research specialists.

[Francine Raynault, NDP, Joliette, QC]

That would be helpful to you? You would like people to come from outside of Canada if possible? Do I understand you correctly?

Mr. Chairman, I think we do not have interpretation.

You did not understand my question, Mr. Sardinha?

[Joe Sardinha]

Yes, I did. If we are having trouble filling the research positions that are being vacated by retiring researchers and scientists within Canada, then I think we have to look to outsourcing. Whether we can attract individuals from the United States or from Europe, if they have the abilities, if they have the credentials, I think we need to find a way to fill the voids, because we see the situation getting worse and not improving if we don't do that. I just have to visit my own research centre--it's only about three kilometres from my home and my farm--and I can see a lot of grey hair there and a lot of researchers who are going to retire. It's rather alarming that we already have these vacancies and they haven't been filled.

[Francine Raynault, NDP, Joliette, QC]

People are not being replaced because there is no one to replace them? There are no researchers who are trained to fill those positions?

[Joe Sardinha]

Well, that's part of it. When I'm talking about researchers who need to be replaced, it's usually those individuals who of course have their doctorate. We do have other researchers who are graduate students or whatever, but they do not have the credentials to replace the individuals who have retired. We need researchers with the same abilities, really.

[Francine Raynault, NDP, Joliette, QC]

I see.

Do I have some time left, Mr. Chairman?

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

You have about a half a minute.

[Francine Raynault, NDP, Joliette, QC]

My question is for Ms. Wittenberg.

I have heard that universities are holding discussions with aboriginal people. Could you tell us more about that please during the short time I have left?

[Dr. Karin Wittenberg]

Here at the University of Manitoba one of the pillars of our future development is related to the education and dialogue with our remote and aboriginal communities.

We know that nutritional security is an issue. We know that our communities of the north are not in control or they have limited knowledge of the food value chain upon which they rely. And there is an opportunity for agriculture to contribute in a positive way to the nutrition of those communities and to the health of those communities.

It is my understanding that this has to start with good dialogue and focused programs resulting from that dialogue. So it's not a prescriptive thing; it's something that has to be developed in conjunction with the entities with which these communities are already in dialogue, or it has to start from scratch.

I think agriculture has a role to play, but we are maybe not well versed in how to initiate this dialogue process and how to help respond to the need. Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada, as well as universities such as ours, has a role to play, and there may very well be other departments in the federal government and provincial governments that need to be linked to this.

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

Thank you very much.

We'll now move to Mr. Valeriote for five minutes.

[Frank Valeriote, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I guess my questions will be of Michael and Karen in Winnipeg, but Joe and Glen are welcome to jump in.

I have really two questions.

This week the government's expert panel on federal support to research and development noted that Canadian business expenditure on R and D has fallen every year since 2006, both in real terms and as a percentage of GDP. The panel noted that at 1% of GDP, Canada's business expenditure on research and development is well below the OECD average of 1.6%.

My first question will be, do you concur with that assessment and do you feel that it is time now that this gap be closed?

My second question is about commercialization. I come from Guelph. There's a great deal of agricultural and food innovation in Guelph, either at the university or in the clusters around the university. I am continually told by people such as Dave Smardon at Bioenterprise and by other organizations, including a new innovations centre that has been established in Guelph to help innovators commercialize—in other words, “get their ideas to market”....

I'm wondering to what degree you see a problem existing and what you think might be a solution—for instance, the introduction of flow-through shares or other tax credits to incentivize that industry.

[Dr. Karin Wittenberg]

On the commercialization side, I'll give you an example of where I think commercialization has happened but may not have been recognized.

We have a bioethanol processing plant in the province. It became very well recognized for the quality of dried distillers grains it was producing as a result of collaboration with animal nutritionists at the University of Manitoba showing them how processing practices in the plant could influence the quality of the dried distillers grains and the variation from run to run of dried distillers grains. That plant, recognizing how they could solve the problem, did and had some of the premier quality dried distillers grains available for the feed industry.

Do we consider that a successful commercialization? In the traditional terms we do not, because there's no single product that is now commercialized and for sale; yet this processing plant and the producers buying the product have both gained. That's one point I wanted to make.

With respect to investments, Manitoba is perhaps a model for what we have observed in Canada. We do not have very many headquarters of businesses in Manitoba, and headquarters tend to make the decisions around investment. We have a little bit of the same scenario in Canada, and that worries me, because successful enterprises tend to be bought by multinationals, and the decisions around reinvestment and investment in research do not tend to favour the Canadian portion of the enterprise.

So I think you make a very good point. How to reverse that situation, I'm not sure. I feel confident that the tax credit system is a part of the equation, but small enterprises—at least in my experience in dealing with those smaller companies and Revenue Canada—have a difficulty becoming aware of where these programs are and how to take advantage of them, and then with the administration associated with them.

I think you make a very good point. There probably are some solutions there.

[Dr. Michael Trevan]

Let me add that before I moved to Canada I worked for an organization called the London Development Agency. My role there was to work out how to extract technology from London's 42 universities, institutes of higher education, or whatever. The thing that became very apparent was that it wasn't that universities couldn't do it—they had lots of ideas—but that small industries didn't have the time to go and find those ideas.The solution became to give the industries money whereby they could seek out, from places such as universities, solutions to the problems they experienced.

So there is a way in which you can actually encourage them to innovate.

But I think the other point is that if you look at the history of wheat in the Prairies, the productivity nowadays is probably about 240% of what it was 100 years ago. Most of that increase in productivity has come about through changes in agronomic practices. They are not really commercializations, but they made a huge difference to productivity on the farm. Within agriculture there are many examples like that.

I think it's a rare thing to have a new product you can actually sell in an agricultural industry.

As for your figures about spending on R and D, I would take them at face value. They don't particularly surprise me.

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

Thank you very much.

I'll now move to Mr. Lobb for five minutes.

[Frank Valeriote, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

Mr. Chair, someone was trying to communicate with you from the other end of the table somewhere.

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

Mr. Trevan was.

[Dr. Michael Trevan]

It wasn't me.

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

Mr. Sardinha, were you trying...?

[Joe Sardinha]

Yes. I just had a quick observation, Mr. Chairman—

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

Be very brief, because we're out of time on this one.

[Joe Sardinha]

I'm putting on my producer's hat regarding the dropping of R and D investment.

It's no mystery. We've had negative net farming income in British Columbia for the past four years. Working capital is an issue for individuals, associations, and co-ops. One only has to look at the science cluster initiative. Had the federal government only provided 50% funding, I think we would have seen far less uptake. Farmers are cash-strapped; otherwise we would be putting more of our own dollars into research and development, believe me.

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

Mr. Lobb, you have five minutes.

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The first question I have is for either the dean or the associate dean, if they are inclined to answer.

Could you put on the record for the committee some of the stories of success that you've had in collaboration with Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada, with industry, or with the producers themselves, or with organizations within the agricultural community with which you've worked through the first phase of Growing Forward, and specifically within the science and innovation portion of it?

[Dr. Karin Wittenberg]

I'm not sure I caught the full focus of what you said. Are you looking for an example of a university, Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada, and industry collaboration?