Evidence of meeting #76 for Agriculture and Agri-Food in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was spirits.

A recording is available from Parliament.

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Jan Westcott  President, Spirits Canada
Shirley-Ann George  President, Alliance of Canadian Wine Consumers
Brian Alger  Chief Executive Officer, The Pop Shoppe
Terry David Mulligan  As an Individual

11:05 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Merv Tweed

I call the meeting to order.

Good morning, everyone. Welcome to the Standing Committee on Agricultural and Agri-Food, meeting number 76. The orders of the day, pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) and the motion adopted by the committee on Thursday, January 31, 2013, are for our study of the agricultural and agrifood products supply chain (beverage sector).

Joining us today from the Alliance of Canadian Wine Consumers is Shirley-Ann George, the president; and from Spirits Canada, Jan Westcott, president, and C.J. Helie, vice-president. Welcome.

I will just advise you, as we do at all committee meetings, that anything that has to be circulated to members of the committee must come through my office. So I'll expect the additives at the back of the room—

11:05 a.m.

Voices

Oh, oh!

11:05 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Merv Tweed

—and will advise members of when I'm hosting.

With that, I'll welcome you.

Mr. Westcott, I'll ask you to start and then we'll go to Ms. George and then open the floor. Please proceed.

11:05 a.m.

Jan Westcott President, Spirits Canada

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

As the chairman said, I'm Jan Westcott, the president of Spirits Canada. On behalf of the Canadian distilled spirits manufacturers, we are pleased to appear today to provide the spirits industry's views to the committee on its beverage sector supply chain study.

I'm certain that members will have already been exposed to the great diversity in the agrifood product supply chains in Canada through testimony from other witnesses. Distilled spirits will provide more unique circumstances for your consideration.

By way of background, Canadian distilled spirits manufacturers have very significant facilities across the country, with a heavy economic emphasis found in the provinces of Alberta, Manitoba, Ontario, and Quebec. For the most part, these plants source the vast majority of their cereal grains in close proximity to their premises, often from farmers with whom they have developed long-standing relationships over many years.

In fact, distilled spirits manufacturers have a unique dual role in the grains supply chain. We are both customers, buying various cereals that will form the basis of the final products we bottle and sell around the world, and suppliers back to cattle and hog farmers of distillers' dry grains used as feed.

Currently, spirits represent 25% of the Canadian beverage alcohol market by sales value and 27% by share of consumption occasions. As Canadian spirits sales grow, whether here in Canada or abroad, we buy more from Canadian farmers.

The four primary cereal grains that are the basis of all the spirits we make in Canada are corn, rye, wheat, and barley. In the most simple terms, adding certain enzymes and yeast to these grains is how ethanol is produced through the process of fermentation. For spirits production, this fermented alcohol is then distilled, matured in wooden casks for many of our products, and then bottled.

Today I'd like to take a moment to address three challenges currently facing spirits production in Canada.

To start, we've seen corn prices rise by some 135% since 2000, as one example. What's quite interesting for me as the president of the association is the fact that most days my members certainly aren't very shy about complaining about energy cost increases, new distribution costs, more expensive media buys, or higher liquor board fees, yet no one has complained to me about paying more to farmers for their grains.

As a number of master distillers will tell you if you ask them, if you don't start with truly excellent cereal grains, you can't make really great whisky. In this context, it's noteworthy that spirits manufacturers tend to buy the best of the best from the farmer and tend to pay a significant premium for that. In fact, we're quite proud of that. We drive the business up and forward.

More impactful on the business than the corn prices has been the rise of the Canadian dollar from about 65¢ to parity vis-à-vis the American dollar. The very high tax rates on spirits in Canada essentially have eliminated any fiscal flexibility for our manufacturers to deal with this magnitude of change in foreign exchange rates. Unfortunately, instead of reducing the tax burden on industry as the Canadian dollar rose, excise duties were actually raised, creating a double whammy for the industry.

Today in Canada the federal excise burden on spirits is nearly 20¢ per standard drink, versus 10¢ on beer. As members will be aware, the excise duty on Canadian wine was eliminated in its entirety in 2006, this despite the fact that these drinks, whether they're spirits, beer, or wine, all contain exactly the same amount of alcohol, and I mean exactly: 17.12 millilitres. The impact of these changes is that, despite representing less than 30% of the beverage alcohol market, spirits' share of excise payments has gone from 38% in 2006 to nearly 45% over the last six years.

In discussions with rye farmers in Alberta and Saskatchewan, and corn farmers and wheat farmers in Ontario and Quebec, we often get asked whether the government in Ottawa views their operations as less important or less valuable than those of grape growers. To be honest, given the excise duty burden that we bear, we're never quite certain how best to answer this question.

One very significant point of differentiation for spirits is our export intensity, with approximately 70% of what we make, locally produced, exported internationally. Last year, Canadian spirits manufacturers exported very nearly half a billion dollars, representing 65% of the value of all Canadian beverage alcohol, and our members are working hard to further grow the industry's shipments out of Canada.

Significant new export opportunities are before us, as a number of markets that heretofore have been largely closed to us, due either to prohibitively high import tariffs or various non-tariff trade barriers, are now or soon will be open. In fact, we commend the new free trade agreements now in place with Peru and Colombia and, most recently, with Panama.

We understand that while negotiations are progressing well with Europe, there remain a number of critical elements that need political direction to conclude, including complaints by the EU about the introduction in recent years of new provincial subsidies and policy advantages for local wines, disadvantaging imports and even Canadian wines and spirits from outside that particular province.

We encourage a continued strong commitment by Canada to finalize free trade deals with the EU as well as with Japan, India, Korea, and of course the members of the Trans-Pacific Partnership. Given the range of ongoing discussions, we are extremely appreciative of the efforts of federal trade officials at both Agriculture Canada and International Trade to keep us informed of each of these negotiations and of their commitment to address spirits priorities.

The adoption of modest tax reform to provide the industry the financial wherewithal to develop new markets, combined with the reduction in international trade barriers, can be a real boon to the Canadian spirits-producing industry and to the supplying farm community. Spirits producers are already very important buyers of Canadian cereals. For example, our Ontario plants are the fourth-largest purchaser from Ontario's corn farmers. We understand that one of our member companies in Alberta is the largest commercial rye purchaser in the country. Plus, as I said earlier, spirits pay premium prices for the premium products grown here.

To put this into perspective, think of a single railcar full of grain. It holds about 98 tonnes of corn. These 98 tonnes of corn will produce some 70,000 litres of what we call “cask-strength” alcohol—about 63% alcohol—enough to fill 350 barrels, the typical barrels you would see in one of our aging warehouses. Then, five, six, or seven years later, after losing 1% or 2% a year through evaporation—what they call “the angel's share”—there is enough whisky in those 350 barrels to fill 84,000 bottles.

A 10% increase in the industry's export sales would mean the purchase of some 300 more railcars of grain each year from Canadian farmers. That is a completely attainable goal, perhaps even a little bit conservative.

However, in order to prosper and have Canadian spirits reach their potential, governments and regulators in Canada need to start paying more attention to all of the various impediments and discriminatory practices that restrict the industry. A strong, healthy, and profitable home industry is a necessary precursor to securing sustained growth abroad—a point that I would reiterate.

I'm going to leave you with one final little thing that's happening right at the moment. The committee will probably be aware of a proposal by CFIA to require liquor importers to be registered and licensed under that agency's import licensing of non-federally regulated food and beverages.

It came as a great surprise to us that CFIA or anyone in the government could believe that spirits manufacturers are not federally regulated. I could give you a list of the acts. There are about eight of them.

In fact, we would say that alcohol manufacturers are the most heavily regulated industry in Canada at both the federal and provincial levels. A series of tough controls are already in place that ensure the safety of our products, and with a proven and tested record of effectiveness, yet CFIA proposes to duplicate systems already in place and impose new costs and red tape on our businesses for no demonstrable benefit to the health and safety of Canadians.

This is just one small example of the kind of ill-advised regulatory or policy intervention by federal and provincial governments that diverts industry resources away from productive endeavours that grow the business to non-productive exercises.

I'm going to close by just making my pitch.

In 2006 the Government of Canada made an investment in the wine industry in Canada and in the beer industry in Canada in providing some relief on excise duties. We would argue that those investments have made sense, have stimulated the industry, and have helped both the wine industry in Canada and the beer industry in Canada, particularly the small brewers, prosper and grow.

We're asking the Government of Canada to give the spirits industry equal consideration, particularly given the onerous level of excise taxes our products bear in this country. We need those extra dollars to drive our business forward, both to invest inside Canada on creating new products and improving our plant efficiencies and to go into new foreign markets to build our business. We have been extremely successful in exporting Canadian whisky around the world. As these new markets open up, we need to take advantage of this. We need some consideration from the government of our request.

Thank you very much. I'm happy to answer any questions.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Merv Tweed

Thank you.

Ms. George, go ahead please. Welcome.

11:15 a.m.

Shirley-Ann George President, Alliance of Canadian Wine Consumers

Thank you.

Good morning, and thank you for the invitation to be here today.

The Alliance of Canadian Wine Consumers, better known as FreeMyGrapes, is a grassroots volunteer organization. Our goal is to make it legal to buy and ship Canadian wine across provincial borders for personal use. Today, I'll provide you with a brief update of what has happened since Bill C-311, the amendment to the IILA , was passed last year, as well as what else still needs to be done.

First, a big thank you to your colleague Dan Albas, the MP for Okanagan—Coquihalla. We are very proud to have been associated with Dan in the unanimous support he was able to garner from Parliament and from Senate. And unanimous support these days on the Hill is almost an oxymoron. We do appreciate all the efforts from both sides, from all the parties, in support of Bill C-311.

Why do we want interprovincial wine shipments? Let's start with the reality that there is overwhelming support from Canadians for this notion. In 2012, Harris/Decima research showed that, nationally, 78% of people said that these interprovincial barriers are unreasonable.

This is largely a North American problem. Imagine telling somebody in Paris they couldn't order a case of wine from Burgundy. If you told Italians they couldn't order their own product and that they could indeed incur a fine of up to $100,000 and jail time for ordering Italian wine, they would look at you as if you had grown a second head. This is the reality in Canada. It's largely going away in the United States. Today, 40 U.S. states are open, with Montana coming on board last week.

Our wineries can ship to 90% of the U.S. market, and small wineries that make up only 5% of U.S. production have been able to garner 50% of the direct-to-consumer market. This is an example where you would think that Canadian governments would want to support Canadian small businesses, especially small rural businesses, and when they had the overwhelming support of Canadians to do so, they would be able to move forward.

You may have some witnesses who will come in and say that provinces can't do this because it's unaffordable. We look at the U.S. numbers and respond that's nonsense. In the U.S., less than 1% of U.S.-produced wine is shipped across state lines. It is indeed a very affordable measure.

Bill C-311 passed on June 28 last year, almost a year ago. What has happened? Manitoba, a province with very little wine production, immediately said its borders were open. Kudos to Manitoba. Within two weeks, B.C. announced its borders were also open, and it continues to be the most forward-looking. It has in fact named a wine envoy, whose job it is to go to the other provinces and try to get them to open up their borders for B.C. wine.

Nova Scotia passed enabling legislation on December 6, and the minister's comments on this legislation are very encouraging, but the officials in the liquor boards prior to the minister's comments were not very encouraging. So we need to wait and see what the regulation actually says, but Nova Scotia is marked as hopeful.

Recent changes that allow one case of wine per trip on your person—so it has to physically accompany you—have been enabled in P.E.I. and Saskatchewan. If you live in P.E.I., you probably make it out to B.C. once or twice in your lifetime, on average. It's probably during the summer when you're not about to put a case of wine in your trunk and drive it across Saskatchewan in the heat of the summer. So this little measure that has been passed is not something that we see as progress at all.

Both provinces have also said they're not going to do any more, although neither one has come up with any answer to the question about how in the world they're going to enforce it.

Unfortunately, Alberta gets the booby prize. According to reports by outside counsel, Alberta law clearly states it is legal to ship into the province. Section 89 of their law says that “an adult may import from another province liquor for the adult's personal use or consumption”. It can't get more clear than that, but the Alberta government's position is that “import” means only on your person. So in free-enterprise, free-trade Alberta, we face a huge disappointment, and more work is needed there.

The Ontario law is actually silent on the importation or possession of wine from another province, but the LCBO's position is that you can only bring in one case on your person per trip.

There was a private member's bill by MPP Rob Milligan in 2012, but we lost that when the legislature was prorogued. He has that said he's going to reintroduce the bill, but unfortunately this Ontario government has a very poor record on opposition bills ever even making it to committee, never mind into law.

So while Ontario is clearly benefiting by shipping their wine to other provinces, they haven't opened their borders. To say that's ridiculous is an understatement.

In Quebec a petition was recently tabled in the legislature with over 3,000 signatures supporting people's ability to buy wine across provincial borders. Quebec has yet to respond to this petition, but the government has tabled enabling legislation, which if they wished, could include regulation that would allow reasonable quantities of wine to be shipped directly from a winery to Quebeckers. Unfortunately, we've been told that the intent of this legislation and the regulation that's currently being written is only to allow it on your person. So there's a real opportunity for movement in Quebec, but the effort needs to be considerable and quick.

So clearly the job is not done, although Canadians truly believed that with the passage of Bill C-311, the work was done. A significant number of them are ordering wine across provincial borders, and wineries—because it's now a possession issue and no longer a shipment issue—are largely willing to ship across provincial borders. The reality is that it's not legal and that there is a significant risk to anybody who does so.

We will continue to make our efforts, but we need some help with this huge loophole that is being used by too many provinces.

First, on behalf of the thousands, and thousands, and thousands of Canadian wine-lovers, we encourage you to continue Parliament's good work in tearing down these obsolete, ineffective, Prohibition-era, job-killing, interprovincial wine barriers.

Second, every time you see one of your provincial counterparts—and I really do encourage this for those members who come from Alberta—ask them to respond to the desire of 82% of Canadians who believe that we should be able to access wine through online purchasing. It is bizarre when you think about it that if you're an Albertan, you can go into B.C., literally load up a tractor-trailer full of wine, get in the passenger seat, drive across the Alberta border, and as long as it's for your personal consumption, that's perfectly legal. But if you order one bottle of wine and have it delivered to your home, you've broken the law.

Third, we encourage you to use all possible vehicles to promote this issue. There is a Conservative meeting happening actually on June 28, the one-year anniversary of the passage of Bill C-311. We encourage you to make sure it is filled with Canadian wine from outside the province, and that you make this public. We encourage you to find all federal-provincial opportunities to drive home the message that it is time to free our grapes. It is only together, by working in concert with consumers, the industry, and parliamentarians, that we'll finish the job.

Thank you.

11:25 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Merv Tweed

Thank you very much.

Mr. Allen.

11:25 a.m.

NDP

Malcolm Allen NDP Welland, ON

Mr. Chair, it's not for me to gloat with great glee across the way at my colleagues from Alberta, but thank you, Ms. George, for that, and thank you very much for the kind words about how all parties actually came together.

I have to admit it was a great joy for those of us who come from wine-growing regions—as I do, from Niagara, along with my colleague Alex from the southern interior of British Columbia—to join with Dan to ensure that we had all-party consent. Of course, Frank and his party did likewise, as did the others.

You've articulated some of the things we can do. I talked to my colleague, the provincial member who actually lives next door to me, in office terms. She just happens to be a New Democrat who agrees with me in how we should do interprovincial wine trade.

Do you see places where legislatively we can deal with this, or is this more of an encouragement piece? I know that a lot of us have tried to find out if there is another piece of federal legislation that has an impact we can work on. Or is it really a question of moral suasion, if you will, of opening up that border so that we really do move wine back and forth?

You spoke, Ms. George, about putting a case of wine in your car and driving back from B.C. My wife and I would probably get as far as Lloydminster and there wouldn't be anything in the case. We'd never get back to Ontario. It might have been illegal for me to drink it, since I'm not a resident of Alberta and I might have been arrested before I got to Saskatchewan.

11:25 a.m.

Some hon. members

Oh, oh!

11:25 a.m.

Liberal

Frank Valeriote Liberal Guelph, ON

Drinking and driving is illegal.

11:25 a.m.

NDP

Malcolm Allen NDP Welland, ON

We'd stop. We don't drink and drive. I never drink and drive, as a matter of fact.

11:25 a.m.

An hon. member

Keep going, Malcolm.

11:25 a.m.

NDP

Malcolm Allen NDP Welland, ON

We would have to stop in that glorious province of yours and take in the sights and have to stay. It would probably take us a week to get across Alberta.

Is there anything specific you see, legislatively, that we should work on at the federal end?

11:25 a.m.

President, Alliance of Canadian Wine Consumers

Shirley-Ann George

Unfortunately, Bill C-311 contains the following phrase: “in quantities and as permitted by the laws of the latter province”. So it affects the receiving provinces. Unfortunately, we were not able to convince Parliament to take that out and insist that the province allow reasonable quantities.

So unless Parliament is willing to have some discussions on amending the amendment, if the provinces won't work within the spirit of the law, which you might revisit, there isn't another piece of legislation we're aware of besides the IILA under which we would be able to move forward.

11:25 a.m.

NDP

Malcolm Allen NDP Welland, ON

I appreciate that. Those of us who are very keen on this industry looked for all manner of legislation that might be an impediment.

Mr. Westcott, you talked about the sort of overlaying, duplication if you will, of regulations when it comes to importing. Can you clarify this for me? You're an exporter of a great Canadian product. You're also an importer, I would assume, based on the comments you made.

So how would we exempt the Canadian makers? There will be other importers who don't make product in this country, who want to import from elsewhere, whether they be wine brokers or whatever sort of folks they are. Would there be two pieces there?

No?

11:25 a.m.

President, Spirits Canada

Jan Westcott

No, we would propose that everybody be treated the same, whether it's an imported spirit or a domestic spirit. The reality is, Canada is a trading country. We're traders and 70% of what we make leaves the country. We're very successful. More Americans drink Canadian whisky than drink Irish bourbon and Scotch whisky combined, so we've been truly successful in developing export markets.

The problem is that the American market is mature and there are new markets opening up. We have to treat everybody the same. We cannot expect to have one set of rules for our products, and then have our colleagues in the Scotch whisky business being treated differently. Everybody has to be treated the same. That's a basic tenet of trade, and we are pretty adamant about that. When you do that, you have government policy starting to interfere with the marketplace, often with lots of unintended consequences. So we think everybody should be treated the same.

We're quite willing to stand up and compete. We have exceptional products that do well against all of our major competitors in spirits, whether it's whisky or vodka or other kinds of products. Canada exports whisky, vodka, liqueurs. We've created some terrific little niche businesses. If we want to have access to other countries and be treated the same as their local producers, the principle of everybody being treated the same is critical.

11:30 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Merv Tweed

Thank you, and I can attest that everywhere I travel, the request is always for some good Canadian whisky—

11:30 a.m.

President, Spirits Canada

Jan Westcott

Thank you.

11:30 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Merv Tweed

—and that's a fact.

Mr. Lemieux.

11:30 a.m.

Conservative

Pierre Lemieux Conservative Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON

Thank you, Chair.

I just wanted to ask, on the spirits side, about interprovincial regulations. Are there things that inhibit the transfer of spirits back and forth between provinces, or not really?

11:30 a.m.

President, Spirits Canada

Jan Westcott

Absolutely.

11:30 a.m.

Conservative

Pierre Lemieux Conservative Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON

Can you give me an example?

11:30 a.m.

President, Spirits Canada

Jan Westcott

No disrespect, but we make whisky in Alberta. We have three distilleries in Alberta. Great whiskies tend to be 100% rye whisky in many cases. Those products, when they leave Alberta, are treated very badly by most other provinces.

11:30 a.m.

Conservative

Pierre Lemieux Conservative Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON

So you mean from provincial duties?

11:30 a.m.

President, Spirits Canada

Jan Westcott

By provincial governments, by provincial liquor boards. They are not treated very well.

I'll use Ontario as an example because we're in Ontario. In Ontario, if I'm a spirits producer, my only route to market—I underline, my only route to market—is the LCBO. The LCBO does a good job in some things but they tend to be a high-cost channel.

If I'm in the beer business—and I ran it for a number of years—I have the LCBO, the 800 stores of the LCBO, plus 400 private beer stores, which is a very cost-effective channel.

If I'm in the wine business, I have access to the 450 private wine stores in Ontario, some of which are adjacent to wineries, 350 of which are independent of a winery operation. Again, that's a very efficient channel to access the consumer.

Ontario is one example. Quebec is not much different. You know, we are making progress: B.C. has about 800 to 1,000 private retail stores. They used to be cold beer and wine stores. The government eventually put spirits into them. Surprise, surprise: all the growth in B.C. is there.