Evidence of meeting #10 for Agriculture and Agri-Food in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was europe.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

W. Scott Thurlow  President, Canadian Renewable Fuels Association
Sandra Marsden  President, Canadian Sugar Institute
Mike Walton  Vice-President, Sales and Marketing, Lantic Inc, Canadian Sugar Institute

3:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Bev Shipley

I'd like to call the 10th meeting to order, pursuant to Standing Order 108(2). We are continuing a study of the Canada-European Union Comprehensive Economic and Trade Agreement, better known as CETA, and the effects of it on the Canadian agriculture sector.

Just before we start, we will have a short business meeting for 10 minutes following the open session, starting at 4:30. That is just a heads-up.

I welcome, from the Canadian Renewable Fuels Association, Scott Thurlow, who is the president. Welcome, Scott.

Also, from the Canadian Sugar Institute, we have Sandra Marsden. Sandra, welcome. Sandra is the president, by the way; and Mike Walton is vice-president of sales and marketing.

I'm not sure who is going to start.

We'll start with Scott, in terms of renewable fuels. You have a 10-minute presentation.

3:30 p.m.

W. Scott Thurlow President, Canadian Renewable Fuels Association

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

On behalf of Canada's biofuels producers, thank you for this opportunity to provide our views on the Canada-EU Comprehensive Economic and Trade Agreement.

Each year Canada's domestic biofuels industry returns more than $3 billion to the economy and removes over 4 million megatonnes of carbon from the environment. We represent the producers of renewable fuels. For ethanol, we upgrade wheat, corn, forest products, and municipal solid waste. For renewable diesel, we use soy, canola, rendered tallow, used cooking oil, and corn oil.

Our association also includes every aspect of the value chain for renewable content, from the producers of the feedstock to the eventual customer, the traditional petroleum sector.

Our industry has created over 14,000 quality jobs and delivers the same greenhouse gas reduction benefits as removing one million cars from our roads every year. CRFA members have built an established industry that is well positioned; however, we operate in a very competitive global marketplace. Today, in 2013, Canada is a net importer of renewable fuels. Our open North American fuels market allows for cross-border trade. The federal mandate created by this government requires 2.1 billion litres of ethanol a year, and yet we consume approximately 2.8 billion litres a year, almost all of which comes from the United States.

In Canada, imports from the United States go specifically to over-compliance with the federal regulation. The reason for this is that ethanol currently has a lower price when compared to fossil fuels. It's almost a buck a gallon less expensive. It is a traded commodity on the Chicago Board of Trade.

This over-blending saves consumers money at the pump, reduces harmful GHGs, and gives domestic fuel added octane enhancement. It also means our domestic biofuels producers need expanded market access.

For these reasons, the CRFA strongly supports the government's efforts to open foreign markets for our products. There is in Europe an ambitious policy to increase renewable content in their transportation fuels to 10%. Some of their automakers and oil and gas companies are recommending a 20% ethanol blend by 2025, and a 7% biodiesel mandate. Certainly, there is a future market opportunity there for biofuels.

In Europe we see growth in the biodiesel sector. To the extent that we can enter that market, it is largely in the biodiesel market; it is less so on the ethanol side, mostly due to massive amounts of ethanol from Brazil and from the United States.

CETA will open significant new market opportunities, mean greater access for Canadian biofuels, and expand markets for all of the value-added, bio-based products our advanced producers generate. CETA's ratification would aggressively curtail tariffs on our products. This can only be a good thing.

In total, it's estimated that CETA has the potential to create more than $50 million in new market opportunities for Canadian renewable fuels and agricultural co-products.

Of particular interest to our members is the reduction on tariffs for chemical products. Our industry is at the forefront of developing new, sustainable chemicals that would be especially valuable in Europe. Is there a true market opportunity for renewable fuels? Maybe not today, but certainly in the future. Eradicating tariffs would go a long way to ensuring access to those markets.

But to get the most out of any trade agreement, especially one of this scope and magnitude, we have to ensure that our businesses can actually capitalize on all the potential benefits. Like all trading partners, we don't think the same way about everything. For starters, while the Europeans have a 10% commitment for biofuels as part of their renewable energy directive, European legislators are giving serious consideration to a backwards-thinking, indirect land use change component to their renewable fuels directive.

This proposal would cap crop-based biofuels at a level below current European production. While I can assure you this is a problem for European biofuels producers, this is a direct affront to Canadian producers, including corn, wheat, canola, and soy, that are looking for new markets to ship their products to as either feedstock or as finished product.

There is irrefutable evidence that ILUC has not come to fruition. By way of example, in Canada we are growing more crops on less land. This has occurred since the advent of the renewable fuel standard, and many argue that it happened because of it.

Another concern we have is that Europeans maintain a very low tolerance for genetically modified grains destined for feed use. These products specifically have helped to drastically improve crop yields and ensure the feedstock is available for our products—and feed at a lower cost.

But as my friends from the Grain Farmers of Ontario explained to this committee, one of the most promising points under the agreement is that Canada and the EU will establish a working group to examine biotech issues and ensure they do not disrupt trade. This open dialogue and collaboration on the issue of genetically modified grains is an exceptional step forward in our relationship with the EU, and we look forward to contributing to this working group.

But if that committee doesn't work, the importance of the effective and swift dispute resolution mechanism that would be found in CETA cannot be overstated. Our industry has seen first-hand the challenges that weak mechanisms provide, and I am sure you will agree that WTO challenges are not the objective of any trade deal. The dispute resolution mechanisms that are found in the CETA framework are of the utmost importance.

At their core, trade agreements like CETA allow countries to do better business with each other. They also give countries a chance to learn from one another. Very recently the European Union adopted a comprehensive bio-economy strategy and invested 2 billion euros in research, commercialization, innovation, and skills for the bio-economy. As l mentioned, CETA provides provisions for cooperation in the area of biotechnology. This is a significant accomplishment for our trade negotiators.

Our domestic policy leaders should also take note: Canada currently does not have a domestic bio-economy strategy. As a country, we need a national plan to capitalize on our natural wealth of biomass, attract private investment, and enhance synergies with other policy initiatives. And given similar initiatives coming out of the U.S. and Europe, we need to have it sooner rather than later or we will be left behind.

Another feature that we are very appreciative of is what I will call the mirror-image rule. It's not so different from a flyer or a coupon we sometimes see that says they'll match any advertised offer from their competitors. As a result of CETA, Canada will be able to match any other aspect of future deals that Europe negotiates, like, for example, the one they are starting to negotiate with the United States. There is currently a very strong disagreement between the U.S. renewable fuel producers and the Europeans, and this is a dispute that does affect Canada.

Finally, Europeans have very effectively monetized carbon while addressing challenges inherent in their low carbon standards. Obviously, their system is not perfect and undoubtedly it is a challenge for some of our energy producers, all of whom should use the dispute resolution mechanisms that will be found in CETA.

More needs to be done in terms of our federal policy and regulations. If this sounds familiar, a top executive from Royal Dutch Shell said the same thing on Tuesday. The certainty of regulations in this space will incent investment, because today, as the Shell executive said, they can't make investments until they have regulatory certainty. We verily believe that our renewable fuels are the lowest cost compliance pathway for GHG reductions across all the different sectors the federal government is currently looking at, not just the transportation sector.

Canada needs to seriously consider how to integrate with the European carbon market to ensure our producers can be assured of a fair market value for the greenhouse gas reduction benefits that biofuels and sustainable products provide. The driver for using our fuels in the future is fairly recognizing the GHG attributes they possess and allowing all industries to use them to meet their reduction obligations. Europe has done this.

Members of the committee, I would like to conclude my remarks by commending the government in bringing forward the CETA deal. And I would like to conclude by offering my full compliments to Steve Verheul and his team in negotiating this landmark agreement. The CRFA believes that CETA will succeed in securing global trade markets, not just for the green fuels of today but also the growing range of advanced bio-based products of tomorrow. Ultimately, it will give us a chance to open more doors, grow our exports, and contribute to building Canada's bio-economy, all of which is absolutely critical to ensuring Canada's long-term economic and environmental prosperity, for today and for generations to come.

Thank you very much.

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Bev Shipley

Thank you very much, Mr. Thurlow.

Now we'll turn to the Canadian Sugar Institute and Ms. Marsden.

3:40 p.m.

Sandra Marsden President, Canadian Sugar Institute

Thank you very much.

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Bev Shipley

You have 10 minutes, please.

3:40 p.m.

President, Canadian Sugar Institute

Sandra Marsden

I'll begin, and then Mike Walton of Lantic will follow.

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman and members of the committee.

The Canadian Sugar Institute represents all manufacturers of refined sugar in Canada, and that includes sugar from imported raw cane sugar and sugar beets grown in Alberta. We have three cane refineries in Canada, in Vancouver, Montreal, and Toronto, and a sugar beet processing plant in Taber, Alberta. About 90% of the sugar in Canada is refined from raw cane sugar, and 10% from sugar beets.

The industry also has two further processing facilities that add value to sugar in Canada, and those are in Ontario, producing products like iced tea, hot chocolate mixes, gelatin, desserts, and so on. Most of those products are exported to the United States under quotas that are fixed under NAFTA.

The Canadian sugar market is an open market, so we have to compete with all the other sugar suppliers around the world. Certainly, the United States and Europe would be our two main competitors. The only protection we have from world market distortions is a $31 per tonne tariff, and depending on world prices, that's about a 5% to 8% import tariff. That's in sharp contrast to the U.S. and European Union, which have tariffs in the order of 100% or more. So we haven't got much to give up in these trade negotiations. We have more to gain in export access.

It's not surprising that given these trade inequities we strongly support trade-liberalizing negotiations for the potential they can bring to improving our export access. CETA is the first meaningful trade agreement for Canada overall to be negotiated since NAFTA. It's particularly valuable to our industry because it is a high-value market. In Europe, there's demand for the high-value sugar and sugar-containing products that our industry produces. It's also meaningful because today we have zero access to the European market for our products.

When fully implemented, a key benefit of this agreement will be to remove tariffs on Canadian exports of beet sugar. That will be gradually phased out over a seven-year timeframe, so that will certainly be of value to the sugar beet processing and sugar beet producing sector of our industry in Alberta.

Refined cane sugar, which I mentioned represents 90% of our production, cannot benefit from that tariff phase-out because it does not meet the European rules of origin. You probably heard from others attending this committee that the rules of origin have been a problem for Canada in many different sectors. For this reason we look to encourage our negotiators to obtain some specific volume access because cane sugar in Canada cannot benefit from any general tariff elimination, like many sugar-containing products, because of the sugar content of those products.

There is new access: 30,000 tonnes initial quota, growing to about 52,000 tonnes over a 15-year period, and that's important because it will build on existing investment that's already in Canada. So those value-added processing facilities I mentioned in Ontario that produce products for the United States will be able to produce more of those same products for the European market. In turn, that will benefit Canadian refineries in Ontario and Quebec because they will be supplying those further processing facilities with sugar.

Also, for many other food products, tariffs will be eliminated, but there will also be difficulty exporting because of those strict rules of origin. For those products, the government also negotiated some quotas for things like sugar, confectionery: 10,000 tonnes for chocolate and sugar confectionery, and 35,000 tonnes for other processed products such as baked goods, breakfast cereals, mixes and doughs, and so on. Sugar isn't the only input to those quotas, but certainly with more exports of further-processed products, there will be more sugar to supply. The Canadian industry is well positioned in Canada to supply food processing, so there's a mutual benefit from that.

Ultimately, we believe this will enhance the competitiveness of our food industry, which today has really plateaued in terms of exports. It's a big industry in Canada. Looking at just major sugar users in the food industry, that represents about $18 billion of sales in Canada, and $5 billion in exports—that's confectionery products, baked products, cookies, mixes and doughs, sweetened dairy products, sweetened fruit products. So it's about a quarter of Canadian exports of processed foods.

That sugar input, which is at world prices, enables those products to be very competitive in export markets, so we can't really overstate the value of this agreement in terms of facilitating that trade.

Overall, the Canadian refined sugar industry needs access to export markets, as do our customers. CETA is a critical new opportunity to diversify those markets. Today about 90% of processed foods are exported to the United States, and that trade has plateaued.

We now encourage both the Canadian and the European governments to quickly ratify the agreement—we know it will take some time—and to implement the necessary administrative mechanisms to make sure that we actually benefit from those tariff reductions.

Finally, looking ahead, CETA is also extremely important for the precedent it sets. It's not the last agreement that will be negotiated, and our industry in particular is very much focused on the Trans-Pacific Partnership negotiations. We see this agreement as sending a very important signal to those negotiations to work towards comprehensive trade deals.

Thank you.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Bev Shipley

Thank you, Ms. Marsden.

I'll go to Mr. Walton.

You have about four minutes.

3:45 p.m.

Mike Walton Vice-President, Sales and Marketing, Lantic Inc, Canadian Sugar Institute

Thank you.

I am vice-president of sales and marketing for Lantic, a Canadian-owned company with more than 650 dedicated employees across the country and annual sales of over $600 million. Lantic is the largest refiner of sugar in Canada by way of its two brands: Lantic and Rogers.

We have three capital-intensive refined sugar operations in Canada: two cane refineries, one in Montreal and the other in Vancouver, as well as a beet processing plant in Taber, Alberta. We also have a distribution centre in Toronto and a blending facility in Scarborough, Ontario, that produces products such as iced tea and dry dairy and bakery blends for the Canadian and U.S. markets.

Today I would briefly like to reinforce the comments made by Sandra Marsden and emphasize the value of this historic trade opportunity for our company.

For Lantic, this agreement marks a welcome opening of trade opportunities into the previously closed European Union market. The only meaningful export market we have today for Canadian sugar is the U.S. market, which provides for a modest quota access for Canadian beet sugar from our plant in Alberta. In the long term, the gradual elimination of EU duties on sugar from Canada will be a very important benefit to our sugar beet processing in Alberta and our grower partners.

In the near term, Lantic will benefit from additional sugar sales in Canadian-made sugar-containing products produced at our blending facility in Scarborough, as part of the initial 30,000-tonne quota that will grow to over 52,000 tonnes over time. This will also enhance the efficiency and competitiveness of our sugar refinery in Montreal, Quebec, through the addition of refined sugar.

Finally, new market access into the European Union for sugar and chocolate confectionery and other processed foods that use sugar will also benefit Lantic and its customer base in Canada. Over time, these new export opportunities will help support jobs and economic growth in the Canadian sugar and processed foods industry.

We at Lantic applaud the ongoing efforts of the government to widen Canada’s commercial relationships on a global basis. CETA is a very positive development in a highly restricted global market. We also believe that this comprehensive agreement sets the stage for Canada's ambition in other trade negotiations, such as the TPP. We strongly support and encourage the trade-liberalizing negotiations that will help us diversify our customer base and ensure that Lantic continues its important contribution to the Canadian economy, as it has done for over a century.

Thank you.

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Bev Shipley

Thank you very much, Mr. Walton.

We'll now go to our rounds from our members, but first of all, I want to welcome Mr. Albrecht; Mr. Dreeshen, who has been on the committee before; and Mr. Giguère as part of the committee today.

I will start off with five minutes for Mr. Allen, please.

3:50 p.m.

NDP

Malcolm Allen NDP Welland, ON

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to our witnesses for joining us this morning. As I indicated to you before you started speaking, as the opposition we are obviously very supportive of the sugar industry, since we just ate great big lumps of it, quite frankly, in that confectionery—

3:50 p.m.

Voices

Oh, oh!

3:50 p.m.

NDP

Malcolm Allen NDP Welland, ON

—that was brought by my colleague, Francine Raynault, which was delicious, by the way. I'm not sure I should eat that much sugar in one go, but nevertheless, from time to time these things happen.

I want to go to Mr. Walton and then to Mr. Thurlow.

I'm interested, Mr. Walton, in the sense that it's kind of in the same vein, but clearly we know the country of origin. We don't grow sugar cane in this country. That's just the reality of the situation, for obvious reasons, as it's not nearly hot enough up here.

But we do have sugar beet. Now, we've had folks come before us before and talk about sugar beet in the sense of how there just isn't any more, in the sense that capacity was limited as such. The country of origin for sugar beet is here, which clearly gives us a different sort of access point in CETA than sugar cane does, because, as Ms. Marsden quite correctly pointed out, it's not a country of origin. The auto sector was plagued with the same issue. They got a quota of 100,000 units, and you have quotas of tonnes, moving up.

Do you see opportunities in the sugar beet field to do.... It's not for me to tell you what the business model should be, but I would be thinking about whether I would switch all my exports coming out of sugar beets and use the sugar cane domestically. Or do I do different things? Is there thought given to that? Or is there capacity? Maybe those are the two pieces I need to know.

3:50 p.m.

Vice-President, Sales and Marketing, Lantic Inc, Canadian Sugar Institute

Mike Walton

Certainly we have capacity if more markets open up. As evidenced, and as Sandra pointed out, over seven years the tariffs on refined beet sugar from Canada will be eliminated in the EU. We would be aggressively looking for access to those markets for those products.

3:50 p.m.

NDP

Malcolm Allen NDP Welland, ON

So your plant has capacity?

3:50 p.m.

Vice-President, Sales and Marketing, Lantic Inc, Canadian Sugar Institute

Mike Walton

It does have some modest capacity.

3:50 p.m.

NDP

Malcolm Allen NDP Welland, ON

Okay. So we just need to get the growers. Sometimes the capacity is there, but maybe we don't have the growers. But that's a different issue.

That's good to know, sir. I appreciate that.

Mr. Thurlow, on the biodiesel end, there is a biodiesel plant in Welland, as you know. It's a new one that opened up not quite a year ago. They've been working on it for about two years.

I'm not sure if I caught it right, but did you say that at the moment we're not actually producing for the internal market sufficient quantities of bio-product? Is that correct?

3:50 p.m.

President, Canadian Renewable Fuels Association

W. Scott Thurlow

That is correct. On the ethanol side, we're very close. We produce 1.8 billion litres. We import about 1 billion litres from the United States. But our mandate, which was established by the Conservative government, only requires 2.1 billion litres. So we actually are over-complying with that mandate. The only time we need to import is actually July and August, during the heavy driving season. That's when we don't have enough capacity. We absolutely have to import to meet the mandate.

On the biodiesel side of the equation, it's very different. The first reason is that there is a credit in the United States, called the blenders tax credit, which is available to anyone around the world to take advantage of. So 100% of biodiesel production in Canada goes down into the United States first.

Then the market dynamics allow for the biodiesel...most of which is probably Canadian canola, which is upgraded and then comes back into Canada. That product will find a home somewhere in North America.

So yes, currently right now we do import product. But I think “import” is kind of a funny way of looking at it, because most of that biodiesel I don't consider an import. I see it as Canadian canola that is just upgraded in the U.S. There is actually a plant that just opened in Lloydminster, Alberta. The Archer Daniels Midland plant will upgrade to create 260 million litres of biodiesel a year. With that plant coming online, our ratio of biodiesel to import-export will change significantly.

3:55 p.m.

NDP

Malcolm Allen NDP Welland, ON

That was going to be my next question. My sense of CETA would be that if you send it south for the tax credit to have it refined and bring it north and try to ship it to CETA, it's going to end up as the country of origin not being the right place. That's my guess. But I'm glad to hear about the additional plant that you were talking about.

The other side I'm interested in—I'd like you to expand on it only a tiny bit, because my time is just about to run out—is the whole sense of what you see the Europeans doing vis-à-vis what they would consider to be agriculture product used in the bio field, and how that impacts.... Does it flow here? I think you said yes, but I just want to be clear about that.

3:55 p.m.

President, Canadian Renewable Fuels Association

W. Scott Thurlow

They have a policy in their renewable energy directive. They're considering a policy that would cap the amount of biofuel that could be made from crops. It's a ridiculous policy. That will have an adverse impact on canola, corn, and soy products that would head to Europe.

3:55 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Bev Shipley

Thank you very much. That was good timing.

Mr. Payne, please, for five minutes.

3:55 p.m.

Conservative

LaVar Payne Conservative Medicine Hat, AB

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses for coming.

Of course, Lantic has that facility in Taber, which is currently in my riding but in 2015 will be part of somebody else's.

3:55 p.m.

A voice

[Inaudible--Editor]...Conservative.

3:55 p.m.

Voices

Oh, oh!

3:55 p.m.

Conservative

LaVar Payne Conservative Medicine Hat, AB

You didn't have any action on that, I hope.

At any rate, I have a couple of questions. First, I missed the percentage of the tariff that's currently on sugar going into Europe.

3:55 p.m.

President, Canadian Sugar Institute

Sandra Marsden

It's 419 euros per tonne. It depends on the price, but it's over 100%.