Agriculture Committee on Feb. 26th, 2015

[Gerald Keddy, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margaret's, NS]

Thanks for the information.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River, BC]

I understand the issues with getting young farmers, too, because I also look at my parents, who are 80 and 70. Farmers sell their land as their retirement package, and they retire in Arizona, or do whatever they do with that money. It would be nice to see a program that provided a kind of bridge for that.

I saw a hand go up, so maybe there is a program. Is there a liaison between those two groups now to help that farmer retire but also to keep the farms?

[Kerry Froese]

Those are our provincial organizations. B.C. actually didn't have one. I came to the Canadian Young Farmers' in 2007, and I found out that there were younger farmer groups but B.C. didn't have one. In 2008, I went back to British Columbia and started the BC Young Farmers as a committee of the British Columbia Agriculture Council. Having those young farmer groups to help deal with that and those issues in the individual provinces helps build those issues.

Pierre, did you want to comment on that?

[Pierre-Luc Lacoste]

I'd like to mention a provincial program in Quebec.

Some older farmers don't actually want to see their farm go up for sale. They want to transfer it, but the next generation isn't there or they don't have kids, or the kids want to do something more profitable than farming, so they have moved off the farm. In some pockets of Quebec, they've created a bank. It's a list of people who don't want to see their farms disappear, and they try to match them with young farmers who are not coming from farming or who come from a smaller farm and who have other siblings who are taking over but they want to keep farming. We're trying to match them, like a wedding kind of thing. We're bringing people together and “marrying” them to have the transfer going on.

It's more of a provincial issue that's being dealt with right now, but we could absolutely do something nationally from coast to coast to coast.

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River, BC]

I think that's an absolutely great idea. If we did that nationally, it would at least help. It's exactly what we're looking for as an answer. We like young farmers here at the agriculture committee. To be sustainable, we need you here, so thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bev Shipley]

Thank you very much, Mr. Zimmer.

I'm going to Ms. Brosseau now, please.

[Ruth Ellen Brosseau, NDP, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair

I want to thank all the witnesses who are here today.

They are sharing their experience with us and making recommendations to the Standing Committee on Agriculture and Agri-Food. I also want to thank the people in attendance. It's really rare for the room to be full of people who come to listen to our discussions. That shows how important it is to hear from you in committee.

I'd like to address you, Pierre-Luc, as I want to discuss issues specific to the province of Quebec.

A document produced by the Library of Parliament indicates that Quebec is the province with the highest proportion of young farmers. Why do you think more young people are becoming farmers in Quebec than in other provinces?

[Pierre-Luc Lacoste]

That's a very good question.

We are all members of the Union des producteurs agricoles du Québec, UPA. That organization has invested a tremendous amount of effort in reaching out to young people and creating the Fédération de la relève agricole du Québec—FRAQ. It's beneficial for the UPA to have that youth wing, which consists of not only young farmers, but also people aged 18 and over with an interest in agriculture. Our organization includes all members of the community, farmers or not. That's why the interest in agriculture in Quebec is so high.

[Ruth Ellen Brosseau, NDP, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

You were the vice-president of FRAQ recently. In 2012, the director of FRAQ said that it's sometimes more profitable and easier to dismantle a farm than to transfer it when the next generation cannot buy it at market value. Can you comment on that?

[Pierre-Luc Lacoste]

In a way, lands and agricultural companies are their owners' pension fund. Given the price of inputs and goods, it's difficult to stand out and make a lot of money. These past few years have been very profitable for agriculture in Canada and in Quebec. We have also benefited from that abundance. However, farm transfers are definitely complicated.

[Ruth Ellen Brosseau, NDP, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

It's really complicated?

[Pierre-Luc Lacoste]

Transfers are extremely expensive and lead to a loss. People have to be able to save money. Mechanisms should be implemented to help farmers put some money aside. For instance, governments could offer young people tax incentives to help them acquire a farm.

[Ruth Ellen Brosseau, NDP, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

The great document you submitted also talks about issues experienced last year in terms of labour shortages. Last year—and I don't want to get the amount wrong—the president of FERME said that Quebec had suffered losses of about $56 billion because of a labour shortage.

Could you comment on that?

[Pierre-Luc Lacoste]

I don't have all the information I need to comment on the labour shortage. However, I can definitely tell you that bringing foreign workers to Canada and Quebec is complicated. That certainly may have hurt agriculture in general.

[Ruth Ellen Brosseau, NDP, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Over the past few years, average-sized family farms have suffered losses. Since 2007, we have lost 22,235 farms—a decrease of about 13%.

You touched on that briefly, Ms. Lee.

You've been seeing fewer and fewer farms. Is it because they are getting bigger?

I would like to have more comment on that, please.

[Danielle Lee]

Just to clarify, you asked me about Alberta and if the farms are disappearing. Is that right?

[Ruth Ellen Brosseau, NDP, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

I'm just saying in general.

[Danielle Lee]

In general, I would say that when you look at agriculture across Canada, especially in Alberta, our farms are definitely larger than they were historically. To be efficient, many of them have to be larger in size than they were in the past. For example, in the area where we were, there was a very high concentration of dairy farms and they were all the smaller family farms. I'm not saying that there aren't still family farms in Alberta. It's just that they've had to get bigger and move farther away from the city, mainly onto land that isn't quite as high priced and, hopefully, get a little bit larger to make the economies of scale work.

[Larry Spratt, Member, Canadian Young Farmers' Forum]

I'll make a comment on that.

Yes, farms are getting bigger, but you have to remember that, for example, we farm 5,000 acres and it takes us the same time as my grandfather took 30 years ago to farm 300 acres. Farms are getting bigger, but that's just how it works. We try to maximize what we can per acre in order to achieve what we can do best. With farms, you hear 20,000 acres or 30,000 acres, but it's all relative to what you have per person or per animal or such like that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bev Shipley]

Thank you very much, Ms. Brosseau.

Now we'll go to Mr. Dreeshen for five minutes, please.

[Earl Dreeshen, Conservative, Red Deer, AB]

Welcome, everyone.

Similar to Mark, my wife and I were also outstanding young farmer nominees. This was probably more than 25 years ago. Nevertheless, my wife is still managing the farm. She was hauling grain yesterday.

There are a lot of different things. Of course, I did things a little bit differently. I lived on a farm. My older brother and I took my father's equipment, and we went out and rented land, and that was how we got our base in farming. I also then went out and became a schoolteacher. I taught school for 34 years to support my farming habit.

You mentioned the price of land. I had the same stories and discussions with my parents when it was the price it was then. Every time a new quarter comes up, we go through the same discussion about how you can ever make any money on it at that particular point, but I think that's a continuous thing.

The succession planning, though, I think is a critical aspect of it. You have to make sure you find quick and easy ways. That's why when you take a business approach to it, you realize there are ways to keep your folks involved in it. After a while the older guys might like driving the tractor, and there comes a time when you don't want them driving it anymore, but at least they are still part of it. People say the age of farmers is going up. Well, we just don't want to give up. We want to die as a farmer. It's not the tax implications; it's the fact that there's something really important about getting your hands dirty and getting involved in all of these types of things.

The point I wanted to make in the time I have here is that farmers are the true environmentalists. They are the true conservationists. When you speak to where we are going and how the consumer ties in one way and another, I think it's important, whether you have learned your skills through 4-H or through the discussions you have with the panels here, to recognize that it's important for you to make sure you get the message out there.

It's not a case of defending; it's a case of promoting. We hear so many things, and we know market-led arguments get thrown in. I'm sure you have heard that if you follow the money, you will know why somebody wants to put a limitation on one type of a product versus another. I think that really becomes the critical part that you and your organizations have to look at.

We know it's difficult to get farmers to agree. When you go down to the coffee shop or the curling rink, you know that if there are two farmers, there are going to be two or three different positions by the time they are finished discussing something.

It's important for you to be able to look at and work together for the future. You have these great opportunities to develop the social media side of it. Yes, sometimes you're going to have to go and debunk the things that get thrown at you, because they are designed to make it difficult for you, but I think it's important that you stand up and try to work toward it.

I'm going to leave that with you. Maybe you could comment on some of the ways you are looking at getting the message out that when it comes down to it, you are the ones who understand and care about the land and understand how important it is. If you're going to be kissed because you're a farmer, you have to make sure you get that food out to the world, and just go from there.

Thank you.

[Guenette Bautz]

Absolutely. Thank you for the comments.

Through our social media outreach we really are achieving many great things beyond just telling our story. Social media is really hot for every age starting with the very young, and so through our outreach with social media, we have an opportunity to reach young people and to encourage them to be interested in agriculture.

Further, we provide mentorship through provincial organizations and through our national level to start connecting younger and younger people with those in the industry who can assist them.

With regard to succession planning, I think the difference is that through the Canadian Young Farmers' Forum and our national organizations and others who are encouraging succession planning, we are making headway on succession planning for farmers in our age category. Beyond that, we are preparing to do succession planning with our children, because we realize the earlier you begin succession planning, the better it is for you in terms of retirement savings and in terms of putting into place the support you need through life insurance or savings to help your children and future generations become the next generation of farmers earlier.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bev Shipley]

Thank you very much.

We'll now go to Mr. Allen, please, for five minutes.

[Malcolm Allen, NDP, Welland, ON]

Thank you, Chair, and thank you, folks, for coming.

Did any of you not come from a farm family background? Kimberly.

The reason I ask is not so much what that means. I'm just always interested in talking to someone who decides to do this, young or not so young. I had this experience in southern Ontario, when I did a tour a couple of years ago, of talking to folks about young farmers. This woman put her hand up and said, “I don't think I'm qualified.” It turns out she'd become a farmer after having a career in the public service. She decided to farm, not on a hobby farm, but a farm. I don't want to give her age away, but she was certainly over 50. I had to then start rethinking folks who start farming as maybe being “new entrants” rather than always being young farmers. So I'm always interested in hearing what attracted you to it.

Here on the agriculture committee, those of us who are full time think it's great, but I'm always interested to hear from folks on what drew them to it, on what gave them the sense of “I think I'd like to go do that”.