Agriculture Committee on April 28th, 2015

[Mark Eyking, Liberal, Sydney—Victoria, NS]

If, for instance, you visit a winery and you really like the wine, you take a case of it home or whatever, but then you go to the liquor store and you can't find it, or you ask at a restaurant and you can't see it. Is there a way you can connect through the Internet to demand or receive that wine? Right now, you can get it shipped only within the province. Or is in interprovincial right now? Can you get a case of wine delivered interprovincially?

[Del Rollo]

I'll speak to that and answer those two points. Yes, you can certainly order wine. I'd say that 95% of wineries sell their wine online. In Ontario, they can ship within the province of Ontario. Currently we cannot ship into I'd say half the provinces.

Some provinces have opened up their doors. I could ship to British Columbia, but we are not able to ship into Quebec, as an example, which would be one of the target provinces for us because of its proximity. We are not able to ship into that province due to the regulations in each province.

[Mark Eyking, Liberal, Sydney—Victoria, NS]

So it would be a good idea for the federal government to get the provinces together and let that wine flow, right?

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Marc Godin]

I would agree.

[Mark Eyking, Liberal, Sydney—Victoria, NS]

My question is for the microbreweries. Back home, we just opened a microbrewery and we can buy beer right at the brewery. Is that also possible in Quebec? Can you go right to the breweries and buy the beer?

[Marc Godin]

Yes, most microbreweries have what we call “un magasin à l'usine” or factory outlet.

[Mark Eyking, Liberal, Sydney—Victoria, NS]

But the biggest problem you have is getting the beer from those microbreweries into the corner stores and the liquor stores.

[Marc Godin]

Yes, our main challenge is to have access to the tap lines in the bars and to the shelves in the grocery stores, because unfortunately most large multinational brewers negotiate exclusivities with the retail space owners. It's illegal, officially speaking, but it's simply tolerated, and there is no way we can grow significantly until this is solved.

[Mark Eyking, Liberal, Sydney—Victoria, NS]

Are you also at a disadvantage—

[The Chair, Conservative, Bev Shipley]

Thank you very much, Mr. Eyking.

[Mark Eyking, Liberal, Sydney—Victoria, NS]

Okay. Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bev Shipley]

We'll now go to Mr. Payne for five minutes, please.

[LaVar Payne, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses for coming today.

I do drink the odd beer. I don't know a whole lot about the microbreweries, but I understand that they're growing by leaps and bounds in Quebec. Is that correct?

[Marc Godin]

Yes.

[LaVar Payne, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

Do any of your microbreweries have production facilities in Ontario? You were talking about the ability for one of those facilities to move products back and forth across the border, and I don't know if that's currently the situation, if any of them have that.

[Marc Godin]

To my knowledge, no Quebec microbreweries own an Ontario-based production facility. The advantages are so great that some of us are seriously considering it, including me and my own company. We're based in Gatineau, across the river, and it would be relatively simple for us to establish a production facility in Ottawa or in the Ottawa Valley. We could therefore take advantage of the same interprovincial agreement that the large brewers have taken advantage of in the past.

But for most Quebec microbreweries, it doesn't make economic sense to do it unless they really want to dedicate themselves to the Ontario market.

[LaVar Payne, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

And expand the market, obviously?

[Marc Godin]

Yes.

[LaVar Payne, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

You answered the question before I even had a chance to ask it, so I thank you for that.

[Marc Godin]

Okay.

[LaVar Payne, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

I wanted to talk a bit to the folks from the winery business. As I understand from your website, consumption of wine is growing faster than that of spirits and beer, and sales represent only 30% of all wine sold across Canada. I know that there have been some issues in terms of shipping across borders. One of our colleagues actually had a bill that enabled that to happen. He was from B.C., so I think that might be the reason B.C. is doing that.

I know that in fact some wine is being ordered and shipped to Alberta by the case, and not necessarily ordered online. Somebody said it's illegal, but I would have to confess that I'm the one who's doing that. I'm not going to name the winery because I don't want them to get into any trouble. I'm probably the one who'll get into trouble, but certainly, I believe some of the laws around shipping wine across interprovincial borders need to change.

Why would we have interprovincial trade barriers when we're trying to open up markets around the world? It just doesn't make any sense to me. Also, we certainly have a great opportunity to build upon our sales and marketing here in Canada.

Do you have any other comments you'd like to make in that regard?

[Patrick Gedge]

You're quite correct in your statistics and what is permitted and not permitted. There is a certain level of permission in terms of what you take with yourself if you're crossing from Ontario to Quebec, for example, but to join a wine club or to have it actually shipped to Quebec is not something that you can do.

The unfortunate thing—just to make it a bit local—is that Niagara wineries have a tremendous number of visitors from Quebec. The marketplace in terms of the wineries, the cycling, Niagara-on-the-Lake, etc., is very attractive to Quebec visitors. If they were to find a wine or a winery where they really liked what they tasted, it just seems really odd that they couldn't join a wine club and in fact continue to enjoy that over time.

[LaVar Payne, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

Well, it only makes sense to me. My wife and I were in Niagara and toured a few of the wineries down there, and we really enjoyed that. We're from Alberta, so I actually had that stuff shipped to me in Alberta. The wine is so nice and tasty that I have a hard time resisting it.

[Patrick Gedge]

It simply shows that you're willing to support all-Canadian product.