Agriculture Committee on Sept. 27th, 2018

[Alain d'Amours]

Let me give you an example. In Quebec, we have created farming sentinels. We train people in farming communities, such as milk distributors or others, to detect distress among farmers. We are already seeing that these sentinels are useful. People call us and seek help sooner. It reduces their distress. This initiative could be expanded across the country.

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

Mr. Girard, would you like to add something?

[Pierre-Nicolas Girard]

When you read our document, you will notice a number. Among the 78 suicides recorded in recent years, 67% of those people had been diagnosed with a mental health problem.

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

Really?

[Pierre-Nicolas Girard]

That means that those people, in the days, weeks or months leading up to their suicide, had been diagnosed by a specialist, either a psychologist or psychiatrist, in the health network.

Why is it that these people are primarily at the farms when they have been diagnosed with burnout or another problem and have been given a prescription and advised to take rest at their farm?

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

That is not possible.

[Pierre-Nicolas Girard]

Indeed, you know very well that it does not make sense.

We are saying that mental health services have to be adapted to farmers' realities. So farmers diagnosed with a mental illness should not be told to rest at their farm along with their hundred or so cows.

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

Thank you, Mr. Girard. I have to interrupt you again.

Thank you, Mr. Berthold. Further to your request, can you move a motion? We will then seek consent.

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

I will draft it and move it in a few minutes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

I will then ask for consent.

Do we have consent that it's when available, because there are only two

television crews. Once they are available, we will make a request.

Are we all good with that? Okay.

Thank you.

All the documents will be available, but we still need translation. Those in French have to be translated into English and

The English ones will be translated.

They will be distributed to everyone.

Mr. Drouin, do you have a question?

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

I have a question about this.

Will we ask the witnesses who have already appeared if they agree to our discussions being televised? I expect we will be hearing from people who have had mental health problems. I would like to know if the clerk can ask them.

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

Thank you very much. That is a valid point.

Let us return to the question period.

Mr. Poissant, you have six minutes.

[Jean-Claude Poissant, Liberal, La Prairie, QC]

I want to thank all the witnesses.

You know that it's a subject that affects me deeply. I was once president of Au coeur des familles agricoles.

I'll try to get straight to the point, since I want many answers to large number of questions, just like Mr. Berthold earlier.

People who come from outside the agriculture world aren't familiar with the business. People often ask farmers what makes them different from entrepreneurs.

We spoke earlier business transfers. The same thing applies to entrepreneurship. The labour force and work-life balance are also issues in other businesses.

For the benefit of the committee and the public, I want to know what makes you different from entrepreneurs.

[Martin Caron]

I'll say a few words.

I'm a dairy and grain farmer in Louiseville. Like my father, I was born into the farming business. You must understand that our business is our baby. Our land is our baby. There's an emotional aspect, which has already been mentioned.

This emotional aspect sets us apart. We were born and raised among the animals, on the land, and so on. It's very much a family bond. When farmers say that their business it their baby, the reason is that they're willing to ask a veterinarian to come when one of their animals is sick. When mechanical issues arise or the soil needs our attention, we do what is necessary. However, when it comes to mental or psychological health, the farmers come second, since they prioritize their business, their baby. This aspect makes farmers different from other entrepreneurs. It affects us deeply.

We spoke earlier about the intergenerational aspect. When a farm has been around for four or five generations, we want to continue to operate it. We left our mark on the land, and we saw our parents and grandparents do the same thing. We want to follow their lead, and we hope that another generation will take over.

That's why it's important to properly adapt the services and programs.

[Jean-Claude Poissant, Liberal, La Prairie, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Caron.

As you know, yesterday a farmer and his employee died in a fodder silo. When accidents of this nature occur, do you meet with the affected families?

Mr. d'Amours, you said earlier that the entire community is affected by these tragedies. Is anything done in these situations?

[Alain d'Amours]

We're currently implementing mechanisms. In a way, it's part of our mission. We're working with the Centre intégré de santé et de services sociaux, or CISSS, in Montérégie-Est, in Saint-Hyacinthe. I gave you an example earlier of a death in a manure pit. We were able to meet with the firefighters quickly. Spending even one night with the image in mind is terrible. It can lead to trauma.

With regard to your question, I would say that an important distinction must be made. When workers call me because they're in distress, they then return home. Farmers, on the other hand, are at home. The circumstances are completely different. I can't tell farmers to return home to rest. Farmers are home, and that place is the source of their stress.

We must take a different approach. Our methods must be adapted to the environment. That's why we provide training courses specifically designed for the agricultural sector. It must be understood that farmers and their spouses and children are in their home environment for 24 hours a day. We can't tell farmers to rest at home. It doesn't work.

[Jean-Claude Poissant, Liberal, La Prairie, QC]

Okay.

My next question is for Ms. Jones-Bitton.

As a researcher, you know that Canadian farmers are not the only ones who experience distress. This must be the case all over the world. Have you heard of organizations in other countries that work with farmers? How do these organizations operate?

[Dr. Andria Jones-Bitton]

Yes. One of the leaders in this area is in Australia, the National Centre for Farmer Health. They focus on both the physical and mental health of their farmers.

The discussions we've been having around suicide are really important and absolutely need to be included, although it's a little bit too late. We need to focus more on preventative measures as well, on getting to people before they reach the point of suicide. We need to be focused on positive psychology, on building wellness and resilience as well so that we don't get to the point of depression, anxiety or burnout. I have great respect for Dr. Susan Brumby, who is with the group in Australia. I think she's a leader in this area. I think that organization would be a great model for Canada to follow.

[Jean-Claude Poissant, Liberal, La Prairie, QC]

Ms. Jones-Bitton, you spoke earlier about a training program for people who visit farms and do prevention work. I would like you to elaborate on this program.

[Dr. Andria Jones-Bitton]

My team and I have just finished developing a mental health literacy training program specific to agriculture. We are piloting that. In two weeks, we will start the first of five pilot sessions. We believe strongly in evidence-informed programming, so we're doing pre- and post-assessments to make sure that the training actually works. The program is called In the Know, and we will be training farmers, agricultural service representatives, agricultural government personnel and people who are in regular contact with farmers to recognize the signs that somebody is struggling.

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

Thank you, Dr. Jones-Bitton.

Mr. MacGregor, you have six minutes.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you to everyone for coming today.

Dr. Jones-Bitton, I'd like to start with you.

The research you presented has very stark figures. When you were presenting, I became curious.... A lot of the stress that farmers go through is related to the changes in the market. There are so many unknowns. Are you aware of any research that has compared farmers who work in supply-managed sectors to other sectors? I'm not saying our supply-managed sectors don't have stress, but is there a certain amount of relief from some of these factors just because of the system they operate in? Are you aware of any research with respect to that?

[Dr. Andria Jones-Bitton]

Yes, my research has looked at that. Briana Hagen is our Ph.D. candidate, and she's finishing up those analyses.

So far we've looked at stress and resilience, and we did look at different commodity types within that. There was one commodity group that was at a significantly greater risk of high stress, and that was our pork producers. We do need to keep in mind that the survey was done just after PED, so it might be related to that.

In the other research we've done, we haven't actually seen a huge difference in supply-managed versus not.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Okay.

[Dr. Andria Jones-Bitton]

I think that's because we're not comparing high stress to low stress. It's like the baseline in farming is here, so the differences are not that stark.