Evidence of meeting #108 for Agriculture and Agri-Food in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was help.
A video is available from Parliament.
9:15 a.m.
Liberal
Pierre Breton Liberal Shefford, QC
I would now like to talk about farm outreach workers, which I understand are mainly women. Farm outreach is an interesting model. How many of these workers do you have in your organization?
9:15 a.m.
Director General, Au coeur des familles agricoles
We currently have five. Three are already working in Montérégie, central Quebec and Chaudière-Appalaches. Two others are starting next week in the Eastern Townships and the Mauricie region. We also have partnerships with two organizations in the Laurentians and the Lower St. Lawrence area. We will eventually have someone in Témiscamingue as well, and two other regions have approached us to find out whether we will be able to eventually offer our services there.
We have realized that the closer we are to farmers, the more they come to get help. In the past, we were located only in Montérégie. We wanted to offer our services to farmers across the province, but it was harder for us to interact with them. Today, we have managed to develop this network, and we are now closer to farmers and can intervene more quickly to help them when they need it. We meet with farmers within one to two weeks at most, which is much faster than the health care system.
9:20 a.m.
Liberal
9:20 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Pat Finnigan
Thank you, Mr. Breton and Mr. Beauregard.
We'll now move on to Mr. MacGregor, who has six minutes.
October 2nd, 2018 / 9:20 a.m.
NDP
Alistair MacGregor NDP Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC
Thank you, Chair.
Ms. Langevin and Mr. Beauregard, you both mentioned dairy farmers. In your opening statement, you said 72% of the requests came from dairy farmers. Does that correspond with the percentage they represent in your region, or is it higher?
9:20 a.m.
Director General, Au coeur des familles agricoles
What you're asking is whether the percentage corresponds to the number of dairy farmers in the province. That is not necessarily the case. We are talking about 72% of the 1,157 requests for help we responded to, not 72% of Quebec dairy farmers. That is an important nuance.
The numbers reflect the help that we have been giving over the past two years. The numbers that I gave you are from 2017, when we responded to 1,157 requests. By the end of August 2018, we had already responded to close to 1,000 requests, and there are still four months left in the year.
Those who come to get help are mainly dairy farmers. As I explained earlier, that was not the case in the past. In the past, we were helping a lot of beef and pork producers. Suppose there are 5,000 dairy farmers. We did not provide assistance to 72% of them. Rather, 72% of the total number of requests for help that we received, 1,157, were from dairy farmers.
9:20 a.m.
NDP
Alistair MacGregor NDP Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC
Thank you.
Ms. Langevin, in your exchange with Mr. Breton, when you were talking about the stressors and made reference to the supply management system, is this coming within the context of the uncertainty that supply management farmers are facing, given the percentages that are being hived off through the comprehensive economic trade agreement, the CPTPP and now the new agreement with the United States? Are dairy farmers getting stressed because they feel that the ground is shifting beneath their feet? They get promised one thing, but then what comes is completely different. Is that the experience?
9:20 a.m.
Field Worker, Le travailleur de rang, Au coeur des familles agricoles
Yes. I have spoken to a number of farmers and I can tell you that they feel as though they have been abandoned. They are saying that a good supply management system gives them a certain quality of life and helps them to be able to predict their income and expenditures.
We talked about expansion earlier. Many dairy farmers made big investments and now find themselves in debt and in very difficult circumstances.
The answer to your question is yes.
9:20 a.m.
NDP
Alistair MacGregor NDP Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC
Yes, I agree. I think it's shameful that our system is having to pay for another jurisdiction's overproduction problems, and I know it's the same for the dairy farmers in my region and all supply-managed farmers. The system has allowed them to set a long-term plan to make those investments, and they are told one thing, but then something completely different happens, so I can very much empathize with that.
I want to move on.
In our last committee meeting, we had some fascinating testimony from Dr. Jones-Bitton from the University of Guelph. She talked about a bell curve showing the different kinds of stresses: green stress, amber stress and red stress. If you operate too much in the red stress zone, you get feelings of being overwhelmed, of loss, of hopelessness. There's good stress and bad stress.
She offered three recommendations. One of them was to support evidence-based training programs for agriculture. In your opinion, what would this entail and how do you think the federal government specifically is best suited to deliver them, given that we ultimately want to produce recommendations for them?
I know it's a big question. You can both take a crack at it.
9:25 a.m.
Director General, Au coeur des familles agricoles
I have seen what the Au coeur des familles agricoles organization has accomplished in Quebec over the past 16 years. Unfortunately, the faster pace of life for farmers and the stress that goes along with that is having a negative impact on their mental health. This never used to be considered as anything different from what the rest of the general population experiences, but we need to consider the unique circumstances of farmers.
It would be a good idea to begin by conducting a study to recognize that difference. We need to recognize that, for farmers, their workplace and their business is also their home. During the day, a farmer's father is his business partner, but in the evening, his father is his father. Often, they live next door to each other. All of those factors make a difference. This is the only type of business where that happens.
There are many family businesses in other sectors. We are often told that there are many father-son businesses in the private sector. However, at night, they are not living on the same property. Their workplace is not in their backyard and their father's house is not right next door to remind them of the things that did not necessarily go well that day.
9:25 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Pat Finnigan
Thank you, Mr. Beauregard. Unfortunately, we are pressed for time.
Mr. Drouin, you have six minutes.
9:25 a.m.
Liberal
Francis Drouin Liberal Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Beauregard, Ms. Langevin and Ms. Desrosiers, thank you for the work that you do.
I am not a young farmer, but some of my friends are. We do not have these services in our area yet, but I tip my hat to you. I was once in the right place at the right time. I'm not sure whether the person was suicidal, but she was definitely in distress. I imagine, Ms. Langevin, that this is what you experience every day with farmers.
Mr. Beauregard, you mentioned situations where farms are run by a father and son or a father and daughter. In my family, my father and grandfather sat on the same town council and they did not always see eye to eye. My grandmother always told them that they were not allowed to talk politics at the dinner table at home. However, farmers have a completely different reality since the whole family works on the farm.
How do you manage these crises? I imagine that there are sometimes family arguments and that they cause stress.
9:25 a.m.
Director General, Au coeur des familles agricoles
Yes, they do.
I will let Ms. Langevin answer you since she is a field worker.
9:25 a.m.
Field Worker, Le travailleur de rang, Au coeur des familles agricoles
Many of the cases I deal with involve family conflict, and I gave an example of that earlier. I give those involved the chance to express themselves, to communicate. As a social worker, I can provide mediation services. I meet with each person individually to prepare them for the family meeting. Then, everyone sits down together and I am there to provide support. My role is not to tell them what to do but to give them a chance to express their views. When people are caught up in their work on the farm, they often keep a lot of things to themselves. However, when everyone takes the time to sit down together, it gives them an opportunity to talk things through.
9:25 a.m.
Liberal
Francis Drouin Liberal Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON
Ms. Langevin, you mentioned the importance of things being done by farmers for farmers. You used to be a dairy farmer. Why is such an intermediary important for those who use your services?
9:25 a.m.
Field Worker, Le travailleur de rang, Au coeur des familles agricoles
It is still hard for me to understand because it seems as though a connection is made very quickly. I don't need to start talking about farming for people to feel as though I understand them. That happens automatically. They also don't need to tell me very much for me to understand them.
Earlier, we gave the example of a farmer who goes to the doctor and is prescribed a month of rest. I do not do that when people come to my office because, if I did, I would lose them right away. Instead, I suggest that they take two hours out of the 90 hours of work they do a week to take care of their mental health. Over time, they realize that two hours a week isn't enough. They do the calculations, because they are used to doing that sort of thing, and realize that they are only taking about 15 minutes day. They hardly have time to begin thinking about their mental health before that time is up. It is not enough.
I would therefore never recommend that someone take a week of holidays because, as Mr. Beauregard was saying, it would only serve to increase that individual's stress. If I were to recommend that to farmers, they would would wonder how they could do that, who would look after their animals and who would look after their farm while they were away. Instead, as I just explained, I make recommendations to help them try to find a balance. I once helped a farmer who was working 60 hours a week. He ended up cutting his work week by 30 hours himself. However, if I had told him to do that, I would have lost him.
9:30 a.m.
Liberal
Francis Drouin Liberal Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON
Last week, some witnesses told us that, when farmers are prescribed a month of rest, they unfortunately have to stay in their workplace. Their workplace is not separate from their home like it is for most people. If I need to rest at home, I can put some physical distance between myself and my workplace since I do not live on Parliament Hill, and that is a good thing.
What do you do when someone really needs rest? How do you provide support since you seem to be saying that you would not recommend that they stop work completely?
9:30 a.m.
Field Worker, Le travailleur de rang, Au coeur des familles agricoles
Farmers know very little about mental health. They know about physical health, but not about mental health. When I meet with them, we work together to determine what they could do in their environment. As we said earlier, all their work is done in their backyard or near their home.
How can these farmers take care of their mental health? It can be as simple as driving around their property on an ATV just to relax. Those are the kinds of recommendations that I make to them. The fact that I am a farm outreach worker enables me to go and see people who cannot come meet with us or who do not have time to do so on their own farms.
Last fall, I went to one farmer's place on corn silage day. I asked him if I could ride on the tractor with him. He asked me if I would really do that. I said yes, and I took advantage of that opportunity to help him. He was hauling boxes of corn silage. I was there with him, helping him when he needed it.
9:30 a.m.
Liberal
Francis Drouin Liberal Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON
Let's talk about the stigma associated with mental health problems. There are many publicity campaigns to try to combat that stigma.
We know that the provinces are responsible for health care, but what else could the Canadian Mental Health Association do to address what farmers are experiencing?
9:30 a.m.
Director General, Au coeur des familles agricoles
Quebec has already begun making farmers aware of mental health problems so that they know that there is no shame in getting help. We no longer talk about distress or mental health but about the well-being of farmers. They are used to hearing about the well-being of animals. We are talking about their own well-being.
9:30 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Pat Finnigan
Thank you, Mr. Beauregard.
Thank you, Mr. Drouin.
Ms. Nassif, you have six minutes.
9:30 a.m.
Liberal
Eva Nassif Liberal Vimy, QC
In Canada, health care, including mental health care, is a jurisdiction shared by the federal, provincial and territorial governments.
What could the federal government do to help the farming community? What resources should it offer in order to do that?
9:30 a.m.
Director General, Au coeur des familles agricoles
I think Ms. Desrosiers has something to say. I will let her take that question since she hasn't had many opportunities to speak so far.
9:30 a.m.
Occupational Psychologist, Pierrette Desrosiers Psycoaching
As I was saying, the federal government needs to provide funding to train the psychologists and social workers in the system so that they better understand the problems farmers are experiencing.
As Ms. Langevin and Mr. Beauregard said, it doesn't take much to establish credibility, but it also doesn't take much to undermine it either. When psychologists and social workers don't know enough about how a farm works, farmers may think that they do not understand their reality or that they are not really listening and may decide to abandon the process and stop consulting with anyone. The government needs to provide funding so that more professionals work with our farm outreach workers and are able to respond to requests for help and take over for outreach workers if necessary.
Those involved must understand the reality of farmers. That is what is currently lacking.