Agriculture Committee on Nov. 29th, 2018

[Pierre Breton, Liberal, Shefford, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Minister, I would like to thank you and the other witnesses for coming today.

It is now my turn to congratulate you on your long and fruitful career in politics. Your experience and your knowledge certainly help the agricultural sector as a whole here in Canada.

Minister, a lot has been said about the possibility of exporting high quality products to other countries, products that we can produce in large quantities and that consumers all over the world can trust.

You mentioned that you have been to China, which is probably the most populous country on the planet. Can you tell us a bit about your trip and recent trade mission? How can Canada increase its exports to China?

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Thank you very much.

Of course, it's a massive market in China. I've been there five times as a minister, and a number of times previous to that. The Chinese market is vitally important.

This was a very interesting trade mission. I was representing Canada at the China International Import Expo, which the president of China presided over. It was very interesting to be there. Almost all countries in the world were represented at that.

I also participated in the opening of one of the largest seafood exhibitions in Qingdao. It was the second time I had opened it with the minister. It was very interesting. Not only did we open it, but he came to the Canadian pavilion and spent about half an hour there and saw all that we had to offer.

Then there was the food and hotel expo in China, too. All of these ended up with about one and three-quarters of a billion dollars' worth of signed deals.

In my view, the most important thing with China is to be present there. There's no question that when I sat down with the minister at the fishery exhibition, a friendship was created. That's part of what's so important with getting your products into China.

Of course, as the minister indicated to me, they're very interested in quality, price and friendship.

All countries, including China, are very concerned about safe food. In this country, we have the Canadian Food Inspection Agency. It's so important that it be funded properly. The maple leaf, certified by the Canadian Food Inspection Agency, is a great trademark to sell products in China. We have that.

Along with that, you have to be present there. We were present with over 100 producers and exporters. I think we made a good impression on the Chinese importers. We had meetings with many people.

It takes time to enter the Chinese market. Once you get there, if you can get established, it means that there will be a bigger demand for our agri-food products. That's exactly what I'm trying to do.

[Pierre Breton, Liberal, Shefford, QC]

Thank you.

Amongst the things that I was happy to see in the Supplementary Estimates (A) were additional investments in research and innovation. I think it's very important for our country to be at the cutting edge.

Could you tell us a bit more about how these investments will help producers here in Canada?

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Thank you very much.

With any product, I think farmers are innovators, whether government is involved or not, but it's essential when your competition is the world today. That's what our competition is.

There had been a major reduction in science, research and innovation over the last number of years, and since we came into power, we have invested $100 million in science and research. That's vitally important.

If you do not have that, you're not on the cutting edge. Quite simply, if you cannot produce a top-quality product with less fertilizer and less water, and take care of the environment.... That is also taken into consideration when you're dealing with countries around the world, including China. The environmental impact is quite important. However, it also involves the farmer's pocket.

Quite honestly, what we have to do with science and innovation is to make sure that we produce the right seeds that can grow with less fertilizer and less water. That means less cost for farmers, and that's vitally important.

Of course, with the science and research over the years, we have great scientists. Canola was developed here. The canola seed was developed in Canada. When I had the honour of being appointed minister, I believe the exports of canola to China were worth about $2 billion. Now, that's up to $3.75 billion, or something in that line. That's a lot of money. That puts a lot of money into the pockets of farmers, and the demand is growing.

The middle class is growing in China. The middle class is growing in the Asian communities. There's more money for them to buy the products that we can produce. We have to make sure that we produce safe, top-quality products.

What is vitally important is safe food. The world demands safe food. That's why the Canadian Food Inspection Agency and the certification of that agency are so vitally important for exports around the world. We have the top ranchers and farmers in the world; truly, we do. They have a great clip on how the beef is produced—the rolling lands, the clear water—and the same with the fish. You have to do that, because people are concerned about how products are produced.

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

Thank you, Minister.

Mr. MacGregor, you have six minutes.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you for appearing today, Minister.

I'm going to try to get through a few questions, so please keep your eye on me. I might have to politely interrupt you to try to get through them all.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Don't be as hard as the—

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Page 107 of the fall economic update has $9.5 billion of non-announced spending measures spread out over five years. I think it's generally understood that future compensation for supply-managed sectors will be withdrawn from this fund. I know that you have two working groups that are addressing this problem right now.

Do you have an anticipated cost that will be withdrawn from this fund? Furthermore, how are you going to ensure that the proper and appropriate parliamentary oversight of the expenditure of these funds is maintained?

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Thank you very much. I appreciate your question. I know you're concerned about the supply management sector.

What we have to do, and what we did do, was to appoint two bodies to sit down, or three actually. In my view, what has to happen with any of these programs is that they come from the bottom up. Being a farmer myself, I think it's only fair and right, and the way it should be.

The working groups have to work with the industry representatives and make sure that they put the proper program in place. They have suffered; they have paid a price for the trade agreement. We have to make sure that they're fully and fairly supported, and that's what we're going to do. But I don't want to—

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

The crux is the parliamentary oversight of the funds, though. We have $9.5 billion spread over five years. We, as members of Parliament, have to approve the funding that Her Majesty gets to spend.

What I am concerned about, Minister, is how we as members of Parliament can have the proper oversight over that $9.5 billion. Right now, it's a single line item in here, and we have no further details.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Neither do I, and neither should I, but the fact is—

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

But going into the future, how will you, as a department—

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Just give me one second; you're asking a question.

The fact is that, like anything that happens, any money that's spent, there is a normal parliamentary process that will take place.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

We had our concerns with vote 40 before. With vote 40 from the Treasury Board in the main estimates, there were concerns that we didn't know what that funding was going to be applied to.

I have the same concerns with this $9.5 billion. I want your assurance that going forward in your department, with these two working groups, we will have the proper parliamentary oversight so we can judge whether the funding is adequate to meet the needs of our farmers.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

I can assure you, my good friend, that you will have a voice.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Good. We have that on the record. That's fantastic.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

You have it on the record that nothing is spent by government, that I know of, that you do not have an opportunity to question or—

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Thank you, Minister. I need to move on—

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

—be concerned about. I wanted to make sure you do know, because you were concerned about the issue.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Thank you. I'd like to move on to my next subject.

In July, when you met with your provincial counterparts, one of the things you looked at was the business risk management program review. I believe you had an external panel that made recommendations, particularly with respect to AgriStability. I believe they identified challenges in its complexity, the timeliness of payments and its predictability. I've certainly heard that echoed by farmers.

Now, those recommendations were made in July. Here we are, with our supplementary estimates, but I don't see any particular funding addressing those concerns. The program is problematic. Going forward, Minister, how is your department going to address the concerns we have with AgriStability, and when can we expect to see the proper budgetary measures to address it?

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Well, of course, as you know, the business risk management is under the CAP program, which is administered by both levels of government. It was indicated quite clearly by a number of groups that the speed and the efficiency of the departmental process had to be speeded up—

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

That was in July; we're now in November. I'm just wondering about the timeline.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

It will be reviewed.

I'll turn it over to Chris Forbes.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Please answer quickly.

[Chris Forbes]

Yes, I'll be quick.

We're working with the provinces coming out of July, consulting with national organizations on some potential ways to improve the business risk management system. Stakeholder consultation obviously takes time. These are complicated issues, so this work will be ongoing. Obviously, at some point we'll check back in with ministers to get direction from federal, provincial and territorial ministers.