Agriculture Committee on Dec. 11th, 2018

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

We'll get going.

Thank you, all, for being here this morning. Welcome.

Today, pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) and the motion adopted by the committee on Thursday, November 1, 2018, the committee commences its study of support of indigenous Canadians in the agriculture and agri-food industry.

This morning, from the Indian Agricultural Program of Ontario, we have Mr. Jamie Hall. Welcome to our committee, Mr. Hall.

Also, from the Okanagan Indian Band, we have Chief Byron Louis. Welcome to our committee, Chief Louis.

We will start with an opening statement of up to seven minutes.

Chief Louis, do you want to get us going?

[Chief Byron Louis, Chief, Okanagan Indian Band]

Thank you.

I can start, more or less, with what is looked upon as a historical perspective of agriculture in first nations. There are various studies around it, even in Canada, that show that agriculture in the western woodlands went back to about 900 AD. When you start looking at the contributions of first nations and indigenous people from the western hemisphere, today about 60% of all foods that are traded internationally originate in North America.

I often tell people to imagine Italian cuisine without tomatoes, or fish and chips without potatoes, or different varieties of corn or different other things. Those are foodstuffs that actually have their origins in the western hemisphere. Even today, 60% of all produce that's actually developed, grown and traded in the United States has its origins in the western hemisphere.

When we're looking at that from a historical perspective and how that actually fits in, one thing that is near and dear to us is the fact that, when you look at agriculture, agriculture is central to a lot of first nations cultures. One thing that's needed is looking at the definition of what agriculture actually is. If you look at it from a western perspective, it's basically opening the soil and opening the ground for produce and different other things. But in the western sense, agriculture takes various forms. What you see out in the east is what they call the planting of the “three sisters," which are corn, beans and squash. The uses of that were very well-thought-of in how they have the corn and the beans, which are a nitrogen fixer, going up on the corn stalk, and then the squash, the pumpkins, that actually provide seeds so you use less water. If you look at that, from an innovation perspective, that's basically part of that.

If you look at the Haudenosaunee today, you see that they have over 29 different varieties of corn that are actually grown from prior to contact. This doesn't include such things as tobacco and other types of products.

Going out west, there's often the assumption that agriculture only went so far north, the southern end of North Dakota, but they're having studies in Winnipeg where pollen from corn is actually being dug up in some of the archeological finds outside of Winnipeg. If you go further west, what we used was predominantly fire for agricultural purposes and production. Even for some of the waterborne uses of such things as wapato, an aquatic plant that grows in rivers, along riverways, there are sites that were prepared that go back 5,000 years. We also look at such things as innovations in aquaculture, which we also feel is a form of agriculture that's actually used, and some of these areas were 5,000 years old, clam beds on the west coast.

Agriculture is something that's not foreign to us. In a more contemporary sense, I myself come from a family that has about four generations who were farmers and ranchers. A lot of ours was dryland farming. It's no different from the turn of the century, when a lot of our forefathers were buying threshing machines and our whole community once was, basically, into vegetables: tomatoes and different types of crops that were sent to canneries in Kelowna. One of the things that happened was that we were able to compete, but only to a certain point. Around the 1950s and 1960s, irrigation was put into pipes and infrastructure off reserve, which we were not able to obtain, and that was basically the downfall of that industry.

When we're looking at the future of agriculture for first nations, it's incredible what the growth is. A recent study that I sent out, “Success and Sustainability” from the Canadian Council for Aboriginal Business, shows that 50% of all agriculture produced by first nations in Canada goes for international trade.

The Blood reserve is trading no less than nine different kinds of agricultural produce to Japan for their Wagyu. Wagyu is beef that is grown in Japan. Osoyoos is the largest producer of grapes in all of Canada, and in fact the largest employer other than the south Okanagan. With their Nk'Mip winery, they produces wines that are actually having international recognition. It's the same thing on a private scale, where individuals are starting to move into that area. We have an individual who's an ex-chief out of Kelowna who is not only getting into wineries with Indigenous World Winery, but also going into distilleries and cider production.

These are all initiatives that are actually open. Out on Vancouver Island, chief Gordon Planes is using solar energy for greenhouse production. He's growing wasabi and also looking at shellfish production for international trade. Going east, in some of the areas in Ontario, you have wild rice, and others are using syrups and looking at different types of markets. That's considerable. If you go out towards the east, there was a certain purchase recently where the Annapolis Valley First Nation bought a farm. This farm is actually used for that type of initiative.

When we're looking at the future of agriculture, it's quite bright. As first nations, we look at the opportunity not in a domestic nature inside of Canada. We believe our future in agriculture exists in the international markets, which aren't subject to such things as quotas where we, as first nations, would have to buy into a quota and then look at the purchase of farms, at operations and maintenance, and compete with somebody who's already made those investments.

That's seven minutes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

Thank you so much, Chief Louis.

Mr. Hall, if you want to go, you have seven minutes.

[Jamie Hall, General Manager, Indian Agricultural Program of Ontario]

Thank you very much.

I'm the general manager of IAPO, the Indian Agricultural Program of Ontario. We were established in 1984 with federal support as an aboriginal capital corporation with a mandate to promote the economic development of first nations communities through the utilization of agricultural resources. IAPO operates as a not-for-profit social enterprise. Since its inception, we've advanced over $80 million in loans for all types of farming operations.

While IAPO was formed to address the barriers faced by first nations farmers on reserve accessing credit, IAPO soon recognized that access to financing was not enough to ensure success, and, on an ad hoc basis, we provide agricultural extension and business advisory services, as funding and finances permit.

In recent decades, while the agricultural economy has expanded and prospered, first nations participation in this success has lagged substantially, due to legal policies and socio-economic factors. With appropriate strategies, abundant but underutilized assets and resources could be harnessed to provide meaningful economic opportunities for first nations communities, businesses and entrepreneurs across Canada.

Chief Louis talked briefly about some of the opportunities, and I'd like to elaborate on that further.

First, it cannot be ignored that there are vast tracts of land in first nations' control. In many cases, it is underutilized in terms of its economic potential, and there's a great opportunity to harness that.

Further, with land claims, land under reserve control continues to grow. Between 2006 and 2014, almost 3,500 square kilometres of land were added, and with 40% of Canada's landmass still under land claim, we expect that the vast quantities of land will continue to increase. We have a tremendous opportunity in terms of resources.

The other tremendous resource is the demographics. The first nations community is quite young and growing very fast. The median age is 32. We have a young population seeking meaningful economic opportunities, and agriculture can be part of that, whether farming or agri-food. If we look at the impact of that within the industry, it's important to consider the succession crisis that might be facing the Canadian farm industry. With the average age of producers being 55, and only 8% of them having succession plans, there's an opportunity to bring two worlds together. Similarly, regarding jobs in agriculture, according to the FCC, about 7% of agriculture jobs are unfilled, and by 2025 they estimate that 25% will be unfilled. Here we have a young, dynamic population seeking meaningful economic opportunities, and there's an opportunity to bring those two together.

Another area that can't be overlooked when we're discussing agriculture is food security. It's an omnipresent issue among communities. It's not an issue that relates solely to northern or remote communities. In southern Ontario, food deserts exist. Anything we do that supports the development of farms and agriculture within first nations communities can help address food security issues and help build local food economies.

Last, the big opportunity is within the context of reconciliation. As the National Aboriginal Economic Development Board outlined in its paper entitled “Reconciliation: Growing Canada's Economy by $27.7 Billion”, closing the gap in income between the indigenous and non-indigenous population in Canada would result in an estimated increase in GDP of $27.7 billion. Agriculture can be a big part of closing that gap. We have a tremendous opportunity.

Now that we've talked about the opportunities, I think it's important to look at some of the potential constraints and the reasons for the state of affairs today. In addition to the typical challenges any farmer or agribusiness faces, including things like weather, markets and trade, first nations businesses and entrepreneurs face a unique set of challenges.

The first is limited access to credit. The Indian Act prevents individuals residing on reserve from pledging their assets as security, whether it be land, equipment or whatever else. That is an incredible roadblock to wealth creation and financing. The farm industry has expanded in Canada based on acceleration of land values and being able to borrow against that and leverage it for further growth. That opportunity does not exist among first nations in first nations communities.

The access to credit issue also affects organizations like IAPO. We provide developmental lending to first nations farmers in Ontario, but across Canada there are about 55 similar AFIs—aboriginal financial institutions—and they don't have secure access to funding for loan capital. In our history, as times have gone on, we've run into the position where we haven't had funding available to lend out to producers.

Some other unique socio-economic areas that are worth noting for how they impact participation in agriculture include, first of all, education attainment. Over 40% of farm operators in Canada have post-secondary education. Secondary and post-secondary education attainment among first nations members is far lower than that.

As well, if you think about informal training and skill development, in a robust farm economy in the countryside, either from father to son or from neighbour to neighbour, there's a vibrant agricultural economy where those who are interested can learn about farming, get experience and start to learn their trade. In many first nations communities—though not all—there is no ag economy. There is, again, a lack of opportunity for informal training or skill development.

Last, there's the technology gap. It's widely known that access to and utilization of technology by aboriginal businesses are lower. Four in 10 aboriginal businesses report that they have either no or unreliable Internet connection, whereas 81% of farm operators report using the Internet regularly for email, product information and research.

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

Thank you, Mr. Hall. Time is up, but you'll have a chance to elaborate further when we have questions.

We'll now begin the question and answer period.

Mr. Berthold, you have six minutes.

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Chief Louis and Mr. Hall, thank you very much for being with us today.

Chief Louis, thank you for giving us a picture of the indigenous presence in agriculture. Honestly, there are not many indigenous people in the riding I represent. In southern Quebec, there is no community, frankly, and we don't have frequent ties to indigenous communities. So I found your presentation very interesting.

Is there an inventory of good agricultural practices or successes among indigenous people? If not, it seems to me that it would be very interesting to highlight this very positive aspect of the relationship between indigenous people and agriculture.

[Chief Byron Louis]

There are organizations at the regional level, but there's nothing as yet for a national aboriginal lobby group that deals specifically with agriculture. Most of the initiatives to date have been provincially led, within specific regions. Their success is.... In British Columbia, we used to have a number of them, but now we're down to none.

It would be good to actually have something like that—a national organization looking at how we can share best practices in different areas. You know, the wine-growing industry in the Okanagan would be a very good fit with southern Ontario, in terms of grape production. Others are now.... Nova Scotia is actually producing some very good white wines. Other best practices would be in beef production. Out in British Columbia, our people have been dryland farmers raising cattle for the last four or five generations. It's considerable, and there are all types of opportunities when you look at what some of the bands are undertaking.

I gave the example of Chief Gordon Planes. Right now that's actually attracting international attention and possibilities for that type of development. I think that's something that would be good. That's one of the areas where we really need.... First nations are really dependent on venture capital, not only domestic, but foreign. This is one of the things I recently asked other government officials. When people are coming into Canada looking for investment, who's at the door to actually shake their hands and introduce themselves as potential recipients for this type of development?

I think in the future, part of what you just described would be a perfect vehicle to say that first nations are open for business.

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

Thank you very much.

I'll give the rest of my time to Mr. Shipley, who also had some questions for you.

[Bev Shipley, Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, CPC]

Thank you very much.

Thank you for coming out.

I heard you mention, Chief, that you recently bought a farm. How did that work in terms of the financing? I don't know where it was, but I'm just wondering how that worked.

[Chief Byron Louis]

The example I provided actually came from Nova Scotia, at the far end of the Annapolis Valley. It was with the Annapolis Valley First Nation, one of the Mi'kmaq communities.

[Bev Shipley]

How would you finance that? We just heard from Mr. Hall that access to financing.... We get that it's kind of general in the agriculture area, but there are some specific things. I'm just wondering how you would access the financing for it.

[Chief Byron Louis]

It all depends on the situation. We bought two ranches. One is Sun Valley Ranch, which we purchased with our own resources generated from economic ventures on reserve. Others will look at putting what's called a registered lease on a certain amount of land and use that for collateral. Other ones, like ourselves.... As I said, we actually bought two properties specifically for that purpose. Right now we can secure loans with a bank for up to $10 million based upon some of our assets and monies held in trust.

Other communities aren't in that particular situation, so they look at different types of grants available and other things. I think it would take some time to actually research that one.

[Bev Shipley]

Up in my area, as was mentioned, there's a lot of unutilized land. I'm not sure what the percentage is. Is there a breakdown somewhere? I'm in southwestern Ontario. From southwestern Ontario up to the northern part of Canada and Ontario.... I suspect the land in our area can be utilized. The example I am using is one where they have 5,000 acres. Apparently they run 2,500 and then they rent out.

There is that utilization. In fact, they have it tiled. In a year like this, it's likely been a good investment.

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

Mr. Shipley, sorry, the time is up. I'm going to have to move on.

[Bev Shipley]

I will come back.

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

We have Mr. Longfield for six minutes.

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

I'm going to try to finish Mr. Shipley's question about the land opportunity because it was one I had on my mind. I would like to know whether we keep track in any way of how much land is being used for agricultural purposes by first nations.

[Jamie Hall]

I'm not aware of anyone tracking that.

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

Is that okay, Mr. Shipley?

[Bev Shipley]

That's good stuff. Thank you, Lloyd.

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

You're welcome.

I was really interested in this topic. I put forward a motion to do this study. Some of my interest came from a comment that we had from Natan Obed in a Canada food policy study. He said that his communities need better access to country food. They don't need leafy vegetables and they don't need vertical farming. They want access to their own food.

Chief Louis, you mentioned the generations that have been farming on the west coast. We kind of have a mixture of country food and cultivated food within first nations themselves. Different nations will look at different opportunities. You went coast to coast, when you looked at the.... I guess it's coast to coast to coast, because we have the northern food programs as well.

Would first nations embrace agriculture if they're not currently doing agriculture? Is it within the culture of first nations to take hold of this opportunity, or is this another case of non-first nations putting a solution on first nations?

[Chief Byron Louis]

I think a lot of it is that old saying, “location, location, location”. That's very important when you're actually looking at an opportunity. For us in the central and southern interior of British Columbia, agriculture is a very realistic opportunity, especially when looking at how we can mix that with putting value onto a farm product, as I mentioned some people are actually doing. If we look at other areas of the country, we see that Saskatchewan, for example, has about two million acres. They're about to add an additional two million acres through treaty land entitlement. With regard to some of the negotiations that were mentioned earlier, in southern Ontario, most of these people who are having settlements are not going to be buying property in downtown Toronto. They're going to be buying something that's more viable, like acreage.

Agriculture has always been a part of our cultures, especially in the southern regions of Canada. It was for subsistence. Going back four generations, we were like everybody else; the supermarket was in the backyard. It was only recently that those practices actually stopped. So, agriculture is not foreign to us; it's more or less a movement. In our community, as I said, we had agriculture that was based upon ditches and flood irrigation. Then we went into dryland farming when that collapsed. We need to be able to take the next step.

This is one of the things I told the province. I said that it was a very myopic view not to support first nations in the 1940s and 1950s in putting in waterlines and such. If it had, every last acre on our band would have been under registered lease, which is also taxable. I said, “You've basically forgone hundreds of millions of dollars.” It was a missed opportunity to have not only the benefit of another producer, but the tax generation that comes from that.

If you look at it from that perspective, some of our bands in the Okanagan Valley.... Westbank First Nation actually contributes close to $80 million; $50 million goes to the provincial government, and $30 million to the feds. Osoyoos Indian Band is somewhere along the same line, and in between are other bands that are probably contributing close to $100 million. Can you imagine adding agriculture to that mix?

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

The economic investment would be paying back to the government, hopefully.

[Chief Byron Louis]

Absolutely, it would be, yes.

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

Thank you.

Mr. Hall, I have two minutes left. The Canadian Agricultural Human Resource Council had a report that said that aboriginal workers are a promising source of labour. You mentioned the access for young people, people who could be contributing. However, the report pointed out that only 10.6% of producers surveyed said that they would be willing to hire an aboriginal worker. They cited cultural differences and communication difficulties as reasons for a reluctance in hiring aboriginal people.

What solutions would we be looking at to try to overcome this and encourage producers to hire indigenous people?