Agriculture Committee on Jan. 31st, 2019

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

Good morning, everyone, and welcome. This is our first meeting.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), we are studying the support for indigenous Canadians in the agriculture and agri-food industry.

I want to welcome, from the Department of Agriculture and Agri-Food, Mr. Tom Rosser, Assistant Deputy Minister for the Strategic Policy Branch. Thanks for being here again. We appreciate it.

I'd also like to welcome Jane Taylor, Assistant Deputy Minister for the Programs Branch; Brian T. Gray, Champion, Indigenous Network Circle, and Assistant Deputy Minister for the Science and Technology Branch; and Mervin Traverse, Department Elder.

We'll start with opening statements of up to seven minutes.

Mr. Rosser, I believe you will start.

[Tom Rosser, Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategic Policy Branch, Department of Agriculture and Agri-Food]

Yes.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good morning. I'd like to thank the committee for offering the department the opportunity to discuss indigenous support in the Canadian agriculture and agri-food industry. I'd like to also acknowledge the timeliness of this study, as indigenous engagement in this sector is increasing in importance and frequency at the federal-provincial-territorial table.

Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada is committed to supporting the advancement of indigenous peoples in the agriculture and agri-food sector and the federal truth and reconciliation process. We've learned a lot from outreach sessions with our indigenous partners, and we've started to make some progress in the department. We understand that we have some catching up to do, including strengthening our partnerships and programs. We're hopeful that the work of this committee will enhance our understanding and enrich our ability to better support participation of indigenous peoples in the sector.

Agriculture and Agri-food Canada (AAFC) is firmly committed to creating meaningful dialogue and developing ongoing and sustained relationships with First Nations, Métis and Inuit in Canada. We recognize that this is a long-term commitment, one that will require intense effort and ongoing investment. We are committed to facilitating nation-to-nation dialogue and co-developed initiatives. Increased communication, accountability and support for greater indigenous representation in the department will be key.

There is an eagerness to move forward. However, we want to ensure that we get this right and are thoughtful in taking our next steps. As such, we are currently examining the ways in which AAFC can improve the way that it organizes itself to support this work and to ensure the department is appropriately resourced.

Our engagement efforts to date have included two outreach sessions, with approximately 85 first nations participants, in 2017, which provided perspectives that guided AAFC's approach to supporting indigenous issues. Food policy consultations with indigenous peoples, which took place also in 2017, were led by indigenous organizations, including the Assembly of First Nations, the Native Women's Association of Canada and the ITK.

As a department, we have established and supported programs to engage indigenous partners. Before explaining those, I'll note that my colleague Jane Taylor, the Assistant Deputy Minister of Programs, is here and can answer questions you may have on federal programs.

Under Growing Forward 2, indigenous-led initiatives were supported by AAFC. At the time, GF2 did not emphasize the development of policies targeting an increase in the participation of indigenous peoples in the sector, nor did the department measure indigenous participation well.

In developing the Canadian agricultural partnership, we tried to learn from GF2 and create policies and programs that strengthen the sector's inclusivity. We will also do a better job in measuring results and impacts of our programs.

From the beginning, under-represented groups, including indigenous peoples, were considered when FPT partners drafted the Canadian agricultural partnership's multilateral framework agreement with provinces and territories.

There are federal and cost-shared programs supporting indigenous participation through the Canadian agricultural partnership, many of which specifically target indigenous communities and provide tools to enable their participation in the sector. British Columbia, for instance, has an indigenous agriculture development program, supported by Canadian agricultural partnership funding. Provinces and territories also have programming outside the Canadian agricultural partnership, and we are working with provincial and territorial partners to get a better understanding of their programs and policies.

Under the CAP, we've developed AgriDiversity, a five-year, $5-million program that seeks to directly support the participation of under-represented groups, including indigenous peoples, in the sector. The program helps develop skills, leadership and entrepreneurial capacity. To date, two indigenous-led projects have been approved. The program is supporting activities led by the Council for the Advancement of Native Development Officers and the Northern Farm Training Institute in the Northwest Territories.

AAFC has begun to make a more conscious effort to measure progress in indigenous engagement throughout federal-only programs under CAP. Applications received to date range from providing business planning and financial management services that assist indigenous peoples in starting or expanding an agricultural operation, to piloting growing traditional foods in a greenhouse and community garden, and transferring knowledge to indigenous women and communities.

We've also developed the indigenous agriculture and food systems initiative. This five-year, $8.5-million initiative is designed to increase economic development opportunities for indigenous people by supporting their capacity to participate and succeed in the agricultural sector. This initiative is implemented with financial and logistical support from AAFC and the federal strategic partnerships initiative led by CIRNAC, Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs Canada.

Through our consultations we heard it can be difficult to navigate AAFC's programs. In response, we developed and launched an indigenous pathfinder service in 2018. It's effectively a concierge service that offers personalized one-on-one assistance to help indigenous individuals and organizations develop opportunities in the agriculture and agri-food sector.

In terms of upcoming initiatives, the department is working with Métis partners to develop a Métis outreach strategy. We will continue to work with the Assembly of First Nations and other national indigenous organizations to support their efforts to build a first nations agriculture strategy. We'll continue to examine ways to support food security initiatives in the north. We'll work with other government departments to better understand the federal programming landscape. We will maintain an FPT dialogue on indigenous policies and programs.

Again, thank you for the opportunity to discuss this with you today.

I will now turn the floor over to my colleague Brian Gray, who will speak about more internally focusing programs.

[Dr. Brian Gray, Champion, Indigenous Network Circle and Assistant Deputy Minister, Science and Technology Branch, Department of Agriculture and Agri-Food]

Thank you, Tom, and thank you, Mr. Chair.

Before I begin, I'd like to acknowledge Elder Mervin Traverse. He's a member of the Lake St. Martin Ojibway First Nation, and a traditional Saulteaux-language speaker. He is also Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada's first departmental elder, and he is here today to answer questions that you might have pertaining to this role.

As Tom mentioned, our department has several branches working to support a diverse array of indigenous initiatives. Underlying this work is the need to increase our departmental capacity to work effectively with indigenous peoples, both externally with indigenous partners but also internally with our indigenous colleagues. In 2017, the indigenous support and awareness office was established to increase our capacity to carry out this work. It has has done so through a variety of methods, such as supporting indigenous recruitment and retention within our department, providing full-time elder services, developing a tailored indigenous awareness learning series for the department, and supporting research projects and partnerships with indigenous communities.

Supporting the recruitment and retention of indigenous employees requires consistent and long-term efforts. To that end, the indigenous student recruitment initiative was launched in February 2016, to offer indigenous students valuable experience and knowledge of the careers available within the public service, and to encourage the pursuit of an education and career, especially in the science and technology disciplines where indigenous peoples have historically been, and continue to be, underrepresented.

Since its launch, a total of 103 students have been hired through the initiative and many have stayed on part-time through the school year, as long as it does not interfere with their studies.

Our department conducts significant outreach to promote knowledge of our indigenous student recruitment initiative within indigenous communities, which is done through various means such as presentations at friendship centres, tabling at career fairs and community visits. Through these efforts, to date roughly 3,500 indigenous students have been consulted about our initiative.

Once hired, students are offered support for the many activities of the department's indigenous network circle, one of the department's five employee diversity networks. Each network has an assistant deputy minister champion, and I am the champion of the indigenous network circle.

The indigenous network circle is a networking and support service for indigenous employees and students that also serves as a platform for enhanced awareness and appreciation of indigenous people and cultures. The work of the indigenous network circle concentrates on three main areas: raising awareness of first nations, Métis and Inuit cultures; recruitment, retention and professional development of indigenous employees and students; and organizing cultural activities for all staff.

I would like to now discuss Elder Traverse's role within the department.

We are the first federal department to have a full-time elder on staff. Since Elder Traverse has joined us, other departments are looking at doing the same. Elder Traverse has roots in the public service, with over 28 years of service at the Canadian Food Inspection Agency prior to joining our department in September of 2016.

Elder Traverse's role in our department has four broad responsibilities: first, to provide an indigenous perspective within the department; second, to serve as an indigenous liaison, whereby Elder Traverse helps to facilitate partnerships with indigenous communities and businesses; third, to provide cultural and emotional support to indigenous employees within the department; and, finally, to raise cultural awareness within the department through various cultural awareness sessions that are made available to all of our employees.

Elder Traverse's presence has been a significant contribution to the department's greater effort to reconcile with indigenous peoples and is a key reason why the department has been recognized by Mediacorp and The Globe and Mail as one of Canada's best diversity employers for the past two consecutive years.

The next topic that I would like to address is the development of a tailored indigenous awareness learning series for the department. The driver for this initiative is the Truth and Reconciliation Commission of Canada's call to action number 57, which calls upon all Canadian governments to provide professional development and training for public servants on the histories and cultures of First Nations, Métis, and Inuit peoples.

This series will include both formal and informal learning opportunities through workshops, courses, videos, books, a speaker series and cultural awareness information sessions. The speaker series and cultural awareness sessions are currently underway, while the others are being developed. The bulk of the learning activities will focus on agriculture and the needs identified within the department.

Finally, we support research projects and partnerships within indigenous communities. Our indigenous support and awareness office is working on developing learning materials for our scientists, who plan to collaborate with indigenous partners, and will be organizing a workshop this spring to begin that learning series.

One of our employees, Emily McAuley, a biologist and member of Lake Manitoba First Nation, has done an incredible job serving as Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada's first indigenous liaison scientist. In this new role, she facilitates scientific collaborations with indigenous partners, our own in-house science and technology branch researchers, and external experts.

In 2018, our science and technology branch also added a new priority for an internal call for proposals that our scientists compete for. They were challenged to develop proposals regarding an area that we entitled, “understanding and supporting indigenous people's cultivated food systems.” Our branch also has several ongoing research projects involving indigenous collaborators, including our living laboratories initiative and other projects, such as the three sisters project, the lingonberries project and the Labrador tea project.

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

Thank you.

We will now go to our question round. I just want to welcome Mr. Lobb in replacement of Mr. Dreeshen.

The first question will go to Monsieur Berthold.

The floor is yours for six minutes.

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

My thanks to Ms. Taylor, Mr. Rosser, Mr. Gray and Mr. Traverse for joining us today.

I have read a lot of information since we decided to do this study on the indigenous presence in the Canadian agricultural sector.

Thanks to fine support from the committee's research analyst, we can see that indigenous people are less represented in the agricultural sector than in the general population. However, it seems that indigenous communities own a lot of land. Before we talk about the difficulties, have we established the development possibilities of those communities? How can those communities have better control over their territory? How can we help them to increase their presence in the Canadian agricultural sector?

[Tom Rosser]

Mr. Chair, I would like to thank Mr. Berthold for his question.

Yes, it is quite correct that Canada's first nations currently own a lot of land. We are in the process of studying the data from the 2016 Census of Agriculture to get a better idea of everything indigenous groups have, because one of the strategies to address their underrepresentation in the agricultural industry is, of course, to work with the land they currently have.

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

I am well aware that the study has only just begun, but do we have any idea yet? Have you started? According to your first observations and your knowledge of agriculture, we can already see great potential there.

[Tom Rosser]

Yes, absolutely. We know there is potential. That is only one of the components we are going to focus on.

Across the country, I do not know whether we know the exact total area belonging to indigenous peoples, but we can follow up on that and provide you with the information we already have as we wait for more definitive figures.

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

It is an important study. In order to have a clear picture of the situation, it would be very helpful to have more precise information if we really want to increase the number and the presence of indigenous peoples in the agriculture and agri-food industry.

Mr. Traverse, my constituency has no indigenous communities. So I am not used to dealing with them. As an elder, what were your first impressions when you came to the department? Was the reception difficult? Did it go well? Given that your presence is a first in a department, it was be good to know what kind of welcome people gave you.

[Mervin Traverse, Departmental Elder, Department of Agriculture and Agri-Food]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I did have a career in the federal government for the past 28 years. When I came to Agriculture Canada, I saw how huge the department was and the number of indigenous people who were in agriculture. The numbers were very low, but the progress from 2016 has been really incredible and the support we have and the work we've done is really incredible. We have a long way to continue learning and working with indigenous communities across the country.

It's been very rewarding for me as an elder to be able to work with my indigenous colleagues, especially the ones who have lost their culture, and for me to be able to guide them through the difficult times they're dealing with, coping with everything they have to deal with in the cultural aspect as an indigenous person.

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

As for the public servants who are already comfortable with indigenous communities, Mr. Traverse has just explained that he has been able to reestablish contact with members of those communities. By hiring an elder, what was the department's objective vis-à-vis those people? We have talked a lot about recruitment, but what is the situation with those people and with the relationships with aboriginal communities that are already established?

[Dr. Brian Gray]

You mentioned the land capabilities and capacities. That's one thing. The other is the capacity within the communities for agriculture, so this is an area where we're trying to build bridges. Some communities are already excelling in agricultural production. Others have agricultural production, but it's generally through lease agreements so farmers or farming families are farming on that first nations land and those—

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

Thank you, Mr. Gray. I'm going to have to move to another questioner, and I'm sure you'll have a chance to refer to that conversation.

Mr. Longfield, you have six minutes.

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

Thank you.

Would you like to complete your answer? We do a lot of sharing in this committee, and I'm interested as well in Mr. Berthold's question on department policy.

[Dr. Brian Gray]

Continuing, there are communities that have agricultural lands being farmed, but not by the first nations. They have an interest, but they don't have the highly qualified professionals or access to capital.

Then there's a third category that are not practising agriculture, but they very well might have pre-colonial settlement. There are opportunities there for traditional agricultural practices, so those are areas that we're quite interested in, in the science and technology branch, to work with them on learning how to rejuvenate these traditional practices.

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

We were studying Canada's food policy and preparing a report on that. During that study, I became aware of how little I knew about indigenous agriculture. It was an overlooked area in my studies.

I'm interested in the report that Mr. Rosser mentioned, the cultivated food systems report. We might get that to the clerk so the committee can get up to speed on that.

The University of Guelph graduates a lot of agriculture students. They've often said there are three or four jobs for every graduate going into agriculture. We know we have a shortage of skilled talent coming into agriculture. We also know that our only growing youth population in Canada comes from indigenous communities. We're trying to help, through immigration, to try to boost our young population. The opportunity for youth to fill some of these jobs seems to be an opportunity that's staring us in the face.

Maybe Elder Traverse or one of the others could comment on the economic opportunity for indigenous people looking at agriculture as a career pathway.

[Tom Rosser]

Mervin may well have a perspective on this, as he's probably closer in terms of on-campus recruitment than I am. However, I would say as a general comment that the government created the agri-food economic strategy table, which tabled a report last September. One of the key issues that we heard about there, and that we hear about regularly from the sector, is labour and skill shortages. The table put forth some recommendations for the long term in terms of trying to attract young people to careers in the sector, and with a particular focus on groups that are under-represented within the workforce, which isn't limited to—but of course includes—indigenous people. We do maintain regular dialogue with deans of agriculture from post-secondary institutions across the country, and we have been talking about how we can work jointly to increase interest in careers in the sector.

I invite Brian or Mervin to add to that.

[Dr. Brian Gray]

I was the champion of our indigenous student recruitment program that started three years ago. I didn't know much, but what I did know was that the earth—mother earth—and water are sacred, and that's at the root of most first nations culture. Caring for the earth and having the earth provide was quite apparent to me. We pointed out that there are a lot of jobs out there, very well paid jobs in agriculture, whether they be in agronomy or agricultural science.

We saw an opportunity as we had first nations near several of our research stations in the west. We started the program because it seemed intuitive. We looked into the university system; there were students in the programs, so we were pulling indigenous students from those programs into our summer jobs and they got experience. They might have been in biological science, not thinking about agriculture, but it got them turned on to agriculture. I'm happy to say we have now bridged five of those students and they're employees in the department.

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

Elder Traverse, I'd like to hear your opinion on how it's going or what we could include in our report, if there are areas that we need to support better.

[Mervin Traverse]

I know that, as Dr. Gray said, in the west we have a very huge population of indigenous people in cities. Their post-secondary numbers were alarmingly high in these urban settings, and we found that, for example, Regina had 1,700 post-secondary, Saskatoon had 2,200. We started tapping into those areas to try to figure out the line of entry for our young indigenous people who are trying to get back with the land. They want to work with their land, and the types of things they want to learn fall especially under food security. They're very interested, these young people, but that work needs to be done across Canada. We've hit all the universities and career fairs to try to attract them to the jobs, to guide them through those places.

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

We're doing some, but we need to do more.

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

Thank you.

Mr. MacGregor, you have six minutes.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you to all of you for appearing before our committee today.

Mr. Rosser, I'll start with you. When do you anticipate the national food policy for Canada will be ready?

[Tom Rosser]

I would anticipate that we will be in a position to announce a way forward on a food policy in the coming months.

As I noted in my opening remarks, we did engage with the national indigenous organizations in our consultative process. When one looks at the available data on food security, for example, one finds that levels of food insecurity are much more elevated among indigenous peoples, particularly those living in northern and remote communities. That was an area that was identified in our “What we heard report”, which was released last fall. I expect that a food policy will look at ways to address that.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

The statistics are there for all to see. In a country as wealthy as Canada, the level of food insecurity among indigenous populations is quite shocking.

We've had one meeting on this subject so far. We had testimony from Mr. Jamie Hall from the Ontario Indian Agricultural Program. He said that domestically, both the federal and provincial governments do not really provide a lot of direct support for indigenous farmers in Canada.

I look at the development of the food policy. I can remember doing consultations in my own riding back in 2017—it's now 2019—and I realize it's going to be a very complex policy with such a diverse country and a lot of areas to address.

Specifically with reference to indigenous farming, the grave statistics that we currently have and the fact that we already have testimony saying there are not a lot of domestic supports, how do you anticipate that policy is going to inform the department going forward? How can we see the agricultural programs that you're responsible for respond to that in a timely way that addresses this problem with concrete steps?