Agriculture Committee on Feb. 5th, 2019

[Earl Dreeshen, Conservative, Red Deer—Mountain View, AB]

Thank you very much.

As I mentioned, we know there are going to be some consequences for agriculture, so it is important for us to be able to discuss this. Our last study, which dealt with mental health issues and concerns, was truly eye-opening, with people recognizing the concerns and issues there.

It's not just supply management; it's also other limitations placed on Canadian exports and the concerns and issues we have there. It's the major frustrations and concerns we have for the independent regulatory decisions that are being made. It's important for all sectors that we get a handle on what is happening, and the sooner, the better; that way we can deal with it. We'll be able to include those types of decisions in our upcoming reports to get a feel for those things that are so important for the study.

I'll leave it at that.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Luc Berthold]

Thank you, Mr. Dreeshen.

Mr. Eyolfson, you have the floor.

[Doug Eyolfson, Liberal, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

I move that the debate be now adjourned.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Luc Berthold]

What a surprise!

The vote is on Mr. Eyolfson's motion to adjourn the debate.

(Motion agreed to)

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Luc Berthold]

The debate on the motion is postponed to another meeting.

I thank our videoconference witnesses very much for waiting for us so patiently. We have been good parliamentarians and we managed to stick to the essentials in our debate of the motion.

It is our pleasure to welcome the representatives of 4-H Ontario, Ms. Debra Brown, executive director, and Ms. Meaghan Moniz, coordinator, volunteer support, first nations engagement. They are both with us via videoconference from Guelph, Ontario.

Good afternoon. Thank you very much for your participation.

Also by videoconference, from Washington, we are pleased to welcome Mr. Jean Poirier, the owner of Northern Lights Foods. Thank you very much for taking part in our meeting today in the context of this very important study.

We will begin with the two 4-H Ontario representatives for a period of seven minutes.

You have the floor.

[Debra Brown, Executive Director, 4-H Ontario]

Thank you very much.

My name is Debra Brown. I am the executive director with 4-H Ontario. I have gathered some information from my colleagues across Canada to make this presentation to you today.

4-H is a positive youth-development organization with a focus on agriculture education. We've been operating in Canada for over 100 years, mostly in the rural areas. There are over 25,000 youth enrolled in 4-H across Canada at this time. In Ontario, 92% of youth in our program live in rural areas.

4-H Ontario has been working with indigenous communities for about two decades. Today I'm pleased to present you with a few ideas that we've gathered from those communities we've been working with, and I hope to provide some insight into how we may better encourage the participation of indigenous young people in the agriculture and agri-food industry.

First, I'd like to talk a little bit about youth needs. The rural Canada report told us that we need more capacity-building for rural individuals. This includes indigenous peoples. The indigenous population is the only youth population that is growing in Canada, and it's growing more than four times faster than Canada's non-indigenous youth population.

In terms of the needs of indigenous youth, some are shared by non-indigenous youth, and some are more unique or focused with this population. There are challenges to mental health and well-being, sometimes leading to higher instances of suicide, compared to non-indigenous populations. There is a sense of isolation that goes with that.

There is also a unique factor there in that indigenous youth sometimes—depending on where they're located—have to break community to go to high school. You can imagine being 13 years old and having to move out of your parents' home so that you can attend high school. There is also a rural factor in attending schools. Transportation home after your school day sometimes prevents you from getting involved in extracurricular activities, which contributes to a sense of isolation.

The last point about youth needs I'd like to touch on is just about rural and aboriginal youth having lower high school graduation rates than their urban counterparts. This is ironic because these are also the youth who are often located in the rural areas where agricultural production takes place. The challenge is really to create that intentional link between a growing population and a growing need for employees in the agriculture and agri-food sector.

Our learning over the last few years primarily has been about the power of language. 4-H Ontario has over 100 topics that youth can learn about in their 4-H club. A 4-H club is made up of two volunteer leaders and youth aged nine to 21. They learn about a topic from those mentors. Each topic has a handbook for volunteers to use to teach about the topic. As well, there is a handbook for youth in which they can record their own learning. Over the past few years, 4-H Ontario and 4-H British Columbia have collaborated with indigenous communities to indigenize or decolonize, as we say, some of these handbooks. Incorporating indigenous knowledge and perspectives into 4-H resource manuals is an important piece of engaging in any indigenous community. The concept of decolonizing and indigenizing the curriculum has also been taken up by several ministries of education across Canada.

Let's turn to the agri-food industry's needs. I'm sure that in your course of investigation on this topic you have heard many things about the labour gap in the agriculture and agri-food industry. I won't go into that, but I do see that there is a need for 4-H and a place where we can play a strong role. We are uniquely positioned to spark an interest in agriculture in the minds of young people at a very early age. 4-H leaders are often business leaders in the agriculture industry. Indeed, you will find that many past ministers of agriculture, CEOs and chairs of commodity boards are 4-H alumni.

4-H leaders have the ability to open up a new world to youth in which they can experience agriculture in a hands-on way. This can lead them to pursue a career in the industry. Often, it may lead to their first job in agriculture, working for their 4-H leader or a guest speaker at their club.

The program is a strong network across rural Canada that builds skills and provides places for youth to practice those skills. 4-H has the strength and network to introduce youth to agriculture and to the many jobs that are vacant in this number-one thriving industry in Canada.

What are the challenges of enticing indigenous youth to pursue careers in agriculture? Well, there is the common proliferation of the stereotype—we regularly hear this in our programming with youth—that if you want to pursue a career in agriculture, that means you're physically going to be in the field planting and harvesting, because that's all that farming is. That stereotype is alive and well, especially with youth. In 4-H, we talk about the bigger picture of agriculture—truly from field to fork—by engaging volunteers as those adult mentors. They work across various facets of the ag industry: from the farm to the processors, the retailers and the consumers.

There's also the perception that agriculture is old and traditional. The reality is very far from that. Agriculture has leveraged technology to increase production all over Canada. It's seen great gains by looking at what technology can do, from genetics to equipment.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Luc Berthold]

Madam Brown, I just want to let you know that you have 30 seconds to conclude. I just want to advise you.

[Debra Brown]

Okay. Thank you. I'll skip to the end.

There are some recommendations made in workforce 2025 that 4-H is responding to. The essence of that would be that we have a practical knowledge of agriculture that is beyond the classroom or the textbook. We introduce young people to agricultural producers and thereby open the door for networking, jobs and scholarships for indigenous youth to pursue school or employment in agriculture.

Please accept my sincere thanks for your invitation to attend today. I wish you all the best in your search for knowledge on this important topic.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Luc Berthold]

Thank you very much, Ms. Brown.

Thank you for your testimony.

Now we'll go to Mr. Jean Poirier.

He will be testifying by videoconference from Washington.

You have seven minutes, Mr. Poirier.

[Jean Poirier, Owner, Northern Lights Foods]

Good morning.

My name is Jean Poirier. I was born in Alma, Quebec. In 1965, life events got me to accept employment in northern Saskatchewan. My young years with the Aluminum Company of Canada prepared me for a more diversified life than I would have ever expected. At the time, La Ronge, Saskatchewan, was a community of 250 white residents surrounded by 2,500 indigenous people. It was quite a friendly family; we had no problems. Everyone wanted a job or they were happy trappers in winter, guides in summer, living on secluded lakes in cabins they called home. And, yes, for them it was a home to be proud of. I witnessed this many times, as I owned eight different fishing or hunting camps at different locations.

During our first year, we opened a small coffee shop. Our summer employees were young native girls from the boarding school. In winter we were very slow. We handled the coffee shop by ourselves and even took catering contracts for work on the reserve. All our construction projects were handled by me, with the help of aboriginal friends. The coffee shop grew to be one of the best steakhouses in the province and was a good training ground for our native youth.

In 1967, I started to work on a tourist resort development that included a golf course. Not everyone was in favour of an individual becoming the sole owner of this development, and finally after a few changes in the provincial government, I had no choice but to let the interested individual take over. In 1989 they had failed and I took over and constructed what is today Eagle Point Resort. The project was used as a training program for heavy equipment operators. The golf course was built and maintained by aboriginals who never golfed or had seen a golf course before. The restaurant was sold, but the money was reinvested in construction companies, including heavy equipment, concrete ready mix. With these companies, our main workforce was native people from the Cree and Dene nations. Naturally, a part of the mix included Métis, so all the time the evolution of the native was right under our eyes. When I say “evolution”, I also mean changes.

Our two main employers in the north are uranium companies. Both companies show me confidence and I work at all their projects, with up to 128 people, again of Cree or Dene ancestry. To be a contractor at the mine, you have to employ 70% northerners. I employed over 80% at all times, and again trained young people to become carpenters, electricians, mechanics, welders, pipefitters, millwrights, basically all the trades for such a project. At one of the mines, I had continuous work for over 17 years.

In 2012, I was asked by a wild rice harvester to take over the sale of wild rice internationally. The band gave them notice of discontinuance as they would be losing their main buyer. Wild rice harvesting in northern Saskatchewan employs up to 500 people of aboriginal ancestry. For many of them this is their only revenue for the year.

This is my short presentation to tell you who I am and how much I know about native people. It has always been a very close connection.

Thank you.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Luc Berthold]

Thank you very much, Mr. Poirier.

We will now begin our question and comments period.

Mr. Yurdiga, you have the floor for six minutes.

[David Yurdiga, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, CPC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, witnesses, for joining us here today.

I come from a farming background. I grew up on a mixed farm. Often when we're talking about supporting indigenous people in agriculture, we're talking about the big farms, farms that require a lot of money to get into. I'd like to talk about the micro farms. My children were in 4-H and they learned a lot. Thank you so much to all the 4-H people out there. It's a marvellous organization. With these micro farms, you can teach the kids to grow their own food, whether it's in their house or in a garden.

Ms. Brown, from your experience, do you think we should have more 4-H or have more education in our school system to address the issue of people growing their own food?

[Debra Brown]

Yes, absolutely. I think there has been something lost in cooking skills for youth, and there's a huge gap between what comes to the dinner table and where it comes from. People don't understand where their food comes from anymore. Most urbanites think their food just comes from the grocery store and that's it.

I think there is a tremendous opportunity as we teach young people about gardening, and that can be done in the schools. It is certainly done very much in 4-H. We're looking at gardening in urban areas as well, because access to land is an issue. There's rooftop gardening, and lots of people are interested now in gardening in their own backyards.

So, 4-H can be a source of information to teach young people and adults alike how to grow their own food, for sustainability and for good health.

[David Yurdiga]

My next question is for Mr. Poirier.

When I was growing up in a northern community, we had a lot of shallow ponds. We called them muskeg lakes. They averaged two to three feet in depth, so we grew wild rice. We seeded in the fall and we harvested it the next year.

When we're talking about northern communities in particular, they have access to a lot of shallow lakes that potentially can be an ideal business or even be used for providing for their own families.

The markets are growing. With your experience, do you feel this is a great way for northerners to gain income? I know the demand is great and the supply is low. Can you give me your experience on this?

[Jean Poirier]

My experience is that we have lots of areas, as you said, muskeg lakes, that are very shallow. We have lots of areas that have been seeded but never harvested.

One of the qualities of wild rice is that it will reproduce itself; it will regrow over a period of about 10 years. Basically, we cannot do anything to produce more by using any artificial means. The Government of Saskatchewan said we cannot use fertilizers or anything else. So, basically it is a natural, organic food that we grow.

We have lots of possibility to grow more, but like any other farming industry, it requires a certain investment. Since 1995, these investments have run out. The price of the rice has been set so low for the native people, the aboriginal people who harvest, that basically we ended up with very low production, even though northern Saskatchewan is still the biggest producer of wild rice in Canada.

[David Yurdiga]

Mr. Poirier, do you believe the government should invest more money in northern communities so they can actually grow wild rice? I see less and less in my community as time goes on. Everyone was doing it when I was younger, but it seems there's a trend for the next generation to do other things, other than actually grow their own food.

From your perspective, do we have to have a more education-based approach to this, starting from the youth, or the next generation, to encourage them to grow their own food?

[Jean Poirier]

Yes, I would agree with that, for sure.

One of the unbelievable situations is that, even though I am buying rice, let's say, from 100 different people, probably 60% to 70% of those people have never tasted wild rice. They have no idea what it tastes like. So, basically, education is badly needed.

Another serious problem that we have with wild rice is that it's very difficult to sell in Canada. It's very difficult to sell in the States, for the simple reason of transportation costs, not necessarily the cost of the rice. The cost of the rice, in most situations, is probably less than half of the cost of the rice at the grocery store, not including the grocer's profit. But the cost of land transportation is very expensive.

Yes, there is a point where we can do more education, but the wild rice itself.... The leases on the lakes, things like that, are mostly owned now by older people. The Government of Saskatchewan is reviewing that, and they are coming out with new conditions, new rules, so we should be able to provide education on how to harvest it. Because in principle, as I heard from 4-H—

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Luc Berthold]

Mr. Poirier, I must interrupt you. Your speaking time has elapsed. You will probably have an opportunity to come back to that.

Mr. Drouin, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Mr. Poirier, in the spirit of co-operation, I will let you finish your comment.

[Jean Poirier]

Very well. I will continue but I won't be very long.

Simply, there is lots of room for improvement.

Where should the money be? If you give the money to the band, the money will go in different directions. If you give the money to help somebody who is already there, you will find that it will probably have better results, a better result for education for the young people and also a better result with whoever has wild rice at heart.

That's it.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Thank you.

I have a question for Ms. Brown and Ms. Moniz.

We've heard from previous witnesses that sometimes farming skills are lost after simply just two generations within a first nations community. I don't know if you have had time to expand on your youth development programs with first nations, but I'd like you to explain to us what you do with first nations communities.

[Debra Brown]

We've had the focus on decolonization of our curriculum, but we've learned over the last few years that we're really looking for partnerships. As 4-H is a grassroots community development organization, we've worked with probably a dozen different communities over the last few years, and they've all been very different. Some of them have been very much focused on healthy food and not having access to it. Some of them have been focused on wanting their youth to just finish high school, and whether we can provide social support for that. It's really a wide variety of things.

Our approach has been to get to know the leaders in the community. In Six Nations, that was the community centre itself. In other communities, it's been the health centre, or in some communities it's been the band itself. So really, 4-H can offer so many tools to provide learning about agriculture and food that we have really taken a tailored approach to try to partner with those communities based on what their needs are.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

I heard you mention some of the stereotypes that are out there: that it's old, that it's traditional, that when you're farming you're out in the field. Do you find that's consistent across the board? I guess you can speak for Ontario only, but having chatted with your other colleagues, do you find that's consistent across the board?

[Debra Brown]

I would say that's consistent with youth, for sure. Regardless of whether they're indigenous or otherwise, they see that in farming.

If they're involved in 4-H, they have an opportunity to do that. Just as an example, 4-H Ontario was just reclassified, from our health benefits, that we're now in a tech group. Agriculture is now tech, so there's that kind of thing. If you go to a farm show, you see that you can control your tractor from your house. This is incredible technology.

That's why, in 4-H, we do a lot of ag career education. In most provinces, they do some kind of programming around that. We call it career education, but it's really a lot about agriculture because that's where our contacts are. That really opens up the youth's horizons to talk about all the different facets, and it connects them with mentors in their local community.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

I know you're developing skills with your volunteer coordinators for mental health, and we actually had 4-H Canada here last week talking about that initiative, which is great.