Agriculture Committee on Feb. 5th, 2019

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

About extending the growing season and working with genetics—and feel free to jump in, because I know Guelph is a big partner in that—how are you guys working with first nation communities to extend the growing season? Are you finding it hard to introduce those new breeds to some first nation communities, because of traditional foods, etc.?

[Sheri Longboat]

I can share a little bit. It's not an area of research that we work in, in terms of socially, community-based research. It's working with the community to reinvigorate what we might call indigenous law, or traditional systems. It is the reinvigoration of food sources that were once relied upon, and that were intimately connected with the social, economic and often political systems of how communities managed their relationship with one another, their trade, their inter-tribal or international relations with other first nations, as well as within their communities. It was very much food-driven.

What we're finding is that more communities, rather than bringing in some of the solutions that we talk about for the south.... I will say that it varies with each community. We do have communities in the north that are saying, “We want greenhouses. We do want that.” There is that willingness, and that sense that the communities want to employ what we call southern foods. However, most are leaning towards country foods, if you speak to those who are trying to reinvigorate those values and those knowledge systems.

I can say from the Haudenosaunee that we're trying to bring back heirloom seeds that have been saved through the generations between our seedkeepers. We're going to move that. If we want health, we need to go back to those seeds that have been collected and gathered through those ceremonies, and bestowed within the communities with specific responsibilities to protect them.

It's less about bringing in.... It's trying to get back to the other ways, but doing that in a contemporary context. That becomes the real challenge, when we have students and youth disengaged from those practices.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Going back to your previous comments about some of these first nations that have lost that knowledge of farming, that agricultural knowledge, are you having to teach some of this knowledge again to first nation communities up north, when you're bringing back traditional foods?

[Hannah Tait Neufeld]

I would say, definitely, in the context of my work in the south and working with communities to bring elders.... The project I'm involved with is that I bring elders from the community of Six Nations into urban settings to teach them about planting practices, harvesting practices, food preservation practices and things like that, definitely working with a collection of heirloom seeds, heritage seeds. They know the land they've come from. We do a lot of work in that area.

However, getting back to your point on climate change, we do see some of that changing. I know, from circumstances shifting in the north, that there are some food preservation and food preparation practices that are negatively impacted by processes of climate change and are a food safety issue as well.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Mr. Penner, did you want to jump in and add anything?

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

Very quickly....

[Stephen Penner]

I'm okay.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Okay.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

Thank you, Mr. Drouin.

Mr. Breton, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Pierre Breton, Liberal, Shefford, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

With your permission, I'll be sharing my speaking time with my colleague Mr. Eyolfson.

Witnesses have come to meet with us and have made suggestions. There were discussions with Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada representatives over the past months. We were told that first nations people had more trouble than others acquiring land, for financial reasons, among others, whether they lived on reserve or off reserve.

Are you aware of this? Can you tell us the reasons why these people have more trouble obtaining financing? It's quite important in terms of food self-sufficiency; it's one of the primary aspects.

Since I want to leave some time for Mr. Eyolfson, I'm going to ask you right now what the Government of Canada can do to remedy the situation.

[Stephen Penner]

Thank you very much. My comments will be very brief.

There are several systems designed to grant funds, but none of them allow you to reach the people you need to reach. No one works with the Canadian Council for Aboriginal Business, the Cando organization, or community economic development officers to let them know that funds are available. The system is fragmented. There are funds available, but no one knows how to get them to the communities.

A link has to be established with the communities through the economic development officers. When the work is done with the Cree Nation government, the Nishnawbe Aski Nation, the Canadian Council for Aboriginal Business—with whom you already work—or the Cando organization, officers work with the communities. You always try to announce that you are doing the right thing by making these funds available, but the communities never have access to them. There is no portal that allows the communities to access the funds.

[Pierre Breton, Liberal, Shefford, QC]

Do you have any other comments?

[Sheri Longboat]

I might be able to speak a little bit about the access to land. I can speak for the reserve communities in northern Ontario that are the small federal parcels of land. Often, the quality of arable land, on those lands, is very difficult and it poses significant challenges for communities to engage in mainstream or traditional farming practices, if we want to call them that. As well, having limited access to traditional territories outside of the reserves is very difficult. Then we have challenges with respect to capital and having access to equity, to be able to generate equity from that. Just to step back, some of the communities in the north were saying that some of the things they're looking for are just equipment.

It's such a complex issue, but your question is tremendously important.

[Pierre Breton, Liberal, Shefford, QC]

Thank you very much.

I will now yield the floor to Mr. Eyolfson.

[Doug Eyolfson, Liberal, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

Thank you very much.

I'm new to this committee. One of the things that were pointed out.... Actually, Mr. Longfield made reference to it in his question. I'm also from Manitoba—I guess prairie boys think alike. The stats here on the types of indigenous farmers show that the most common farm type for Métis is beef cattle. Again, coming from Manitoba, we know the bison was very important to the history of the Prairies, to the ecosystem of the Prairies. Again, I'm a physician, not a farmer—that sounds like a Star Trek line—but from what I understand, bison are uniquely suited to being farmed on the prairie, in that they'll just eat what's there, as opposed to needing feed.

It sounds to me like, just because of the nature of these animals and how they grow, that would be a very good opportunity for indigenous farmers to branch into. Has there been any effort to promote this as a suitable and potentially very profitable market for indigenous farmers to get into?

[Stephen Penner]

I'm not aware of it in Canada. There are some examples of it in the U.S. The Pawnee Nation of Oklahoma has a huge feedlot with bison, and they operate it as vertically integrated. They use it in order to grow vegetables, and they view it as a holistic system. But you're right. You can't do anything with the buffalo or bison. You can't lasso them; you're not going to contain them, except when you go to slaughter them. It's extraordinarily healthy meat that's very low in fat and totally delicious.

[Doug Eyolfson, Liberal, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

I order it whenever I see it on the menu.

[Stephen Penner]

Most people recognize it as a good food source. We don't know whether we're getting it from Alberta, Manitoba or the U.S. It's just like wild rice. We think about wild rice, but we also have to think about wild rice being a valued commodity like Parmesan cheese or champagne, because it does belong to indigenous communities and it is a huge export with a restorative component to it.

Did I answer your question? I don't know if I'm going on. We have to contextualize most of what we're doing and make it specific to the regions, whether it's bison on the plains or wild rice in Ontario or Manitoba.

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

Thank you, Mr. Penner and Mr. Eyolfson.

Mr. Berthold, I think you have about three minutes left.

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank the witnesses very much for being here today.

Your answers were very instructive and will help us to make good decisions in our recommendations to the government.

Mr. Chair, like my colleague Mr. MacGregor, I am going to present a motion that is not directly related to our current study, but which is very relevant to the report we will be tabling soon on the mental health challenges farmers face. Last October, I already attempted to convince the committee to adopt a motion in the context of its study on mental health. This is today's motion:

That, pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), the Standing Committee on Agriculture and Agri-Food conduct a study on the consequences of the draft USMCA on Canadian farmers, particularly as related to:

1) producers under supply management,

2) any limitations placed on Canadian exports

3) any limitations placed on Canada's ability to make independent regulatory decisions within the agricultural sector

that this study be comprised of no less than four meetings to be held at the committee's earliest convenience; that the minister and departmental officials be in attendance for at least one meeting; that the government produce all studies, evaluations, analysis and reports that touch on the matters of this study.

Mr. Chair, I am proposing this motion now because I know that we are working on the report on mental health the committee is going to table. I believe my motion is relevant because one of the recommendations of this report will be about the consequences of the government's decisions on the mental health and daily life of agricultural producers.

I think that the changes resulting from the USMCA require that we take a closer look at their consequences on farmers. These producers followed the public negotiations that led to this agreement through the media, and saw their markets erode to the benefit of the Americans.

My objective here is not that we discuss this motion for hours. However, I would like the committee to make a prompt decision, while there is still time, on the merits of including such recommendations in the report on mental health it will be tabling very soon. This presents a unique opportunity to discuss government decisions that have real consequences on farmers and milk, egg and poultry producers. I think we would be remiss as a committee if we did not devote a few minutes, if not a few meetings, to studying the effects of this agreement on agricultural producers.

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

First we have to suspend the appearance of the witnesses who are here. Then we can get back to your motion.

Unfortunately, this concludes the time we have for this panel.

I wish to thank Mr. Penner, Dr. Longboat and Dr. Neufeld for being here. We could have had more time, for sure. Again, if you have anything you want to submit, any recommendations, please do so. We will distribute it and make sure that it's part of our study.

We will suspend the meeting for a few minutes before we resume our work.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Luc Berthold]

We will resume our discussions.

I am going to ask the witnesses who are taking part in the meeting by videoconference to wait for us for a few minutes because we are debating a motion that was presented a few minutes ago. Then we will resume the meeting immediately after, and I will make the official introductions at that time.

Thank you for your patience. This should not take very long, unless the members decide to speak longer than usual, which is always possible given the long tradition among parliamentarians here in Ottawa.

Mr. Dreeshen, you have the floor.

[Earl Dreeshen, Conservative, Red Deer—Mountain View, AB]

Thank you. I'll try to be brief.

When this was first discussed back in December, it was very important that we actually study the USMCA and the effects on producers—

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

I have a point of order.

If I understand correctly, once a member begins chairing the meeting, we cannot discuss his motion. Isn't Mr. Berthold the motion's sponsor?

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Luc Berthold]

The clerk explained to me that under the Standing Orders, I cannot table a motion as chair, but nothing prevents the other members of the committee from discussing it. The debate had already begun when I assumed the chair and it must continue. However, I will not be able to vote. I lost my right to vote by assuming the chair, but I am sure that you will vote in the right way so that my vote will not be lost.

Mr. Dreeshen, you may continue.