Agriculture Committee on Nov. 24th, 2016

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lévis—Lotbinière, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses for being here this morning.

My first question is for the representatives of the Canadian Young Farmers' Forum.

We understand very well the major difficulties and challenges that young farmers face today to buy a farm. Whether it is a family farm or not, the challenges are huge. Owners have to let go of part of their assets that they have worked so hard for over the past 30 or 40 years so that young farmers can continue their work.

All farmers want to be able to pass their farm to someone who will continue their life's work. That is very difficult right now though. Farm owners have a very high debt level. They have to repay their debts or sell their farm. As a result, owners have trouble getting the money they need to buy a house after selling their farm, which is unacceptable.

Are there potential solutions or are farms too expensive today in relation to their profitability? Bankers look at the ability of these farms to repay the total amount of the loan. Letting farmers immediately reach the maximum repayment ability does not do them any favours. We know there are always setbacks in farming. If an owner has to refinance their farm, they will have other problems if they have already reached their maximum repayment ability.

Is there a way out?

[Paul Glenn]

One of the main things we work on with the Canadian young farmers is succession planning, definitely having a succession plan early on in the business. Ten or 15 years is a good start to transition the young farmers so they have that retirement plan, so to speak, for the exiting farmer.

The price of land is a huge issue right now. Land prices continue to grow, and continued interest in the investor sector, as well. It makes it a more competitive market for young farmers to access the land. There's also increasing land rent. Because agriculture is a global market, we're competing against other countries with very low cost of production, so it's a challenge to continue to produce those products. Our young farmers do have challenges moving towards more high-value crops, fruits and vegetables, to be able to afford the land and land rent.

Succession planning is a huge one that we try to push early on for all the hard work for the exiting farmer. All farmers want to see the land that they've worked so hard to maintain their whole life continue on. It's nice for families, but it's also nice for new entrants. There does need to be some programming for new entrants to get into the program as well, to access the capital, because it is a large investment. The good thing about young farmers is they have the time to finance it over a long period of time. It's definitely something we have to encourage.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lévis—Lotbinière, QC]

As you said, the cost of land and other farm assets remains a key issue.

Currently, less than 2% of farm assets belong to 2% of the population. As you correctly pointed out, if by 2025 there are not more young farmers than there are now, it could be less than 1% of the population that owns all the farm assets. This is a tremendous burden. Could the remaining 99% of the population invest in agriculture in some way to support young farmers and the future of farming? Are there any potential solutions of that kind?

[Paul Glenn]

Definitely the challenge for young farmers is that it's a high-volume, small-margin game. Young farmers are using social media now to market their products differently. Urban farming is also becoming more popular.

It's a big challenge. I wish I had the answer. We need to encourage more young people to go into agriculture. I think our education system is lacking on the agriculture side. It doesn't seem to be an option going forward. For people in high school thinking about college or university, agriculture school is not typically something they've thought about over the past four or five years, not unless they have an agriculture background.

That's something we need to encourage. Agriculture in Canada is one of the highest tech industries going. I can't even guess where it will be in 10 years. It is a very attractive industry, but we need to promote it more, especially on the education side.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lévis—Lotbinière, QC]

With regard to organic products, there seems to be light at the end of the tunnel. There are success stories involving young farmers. Young people have started small operations on very small pieces of land, half an acre or an acre, for instance. These operations have relatively high yield and sell directly to consumers, which gives them a good profit margin.

Do you have any examples of this?

[Tia Loftsgard]

Yes. I just attended a Food Secure conference, and there was a presentation by a fellow whose name I forget. He wrote the book The Market Gardener.

[A voice]

Jean-Martin Fortier.

[Tia Loftsgard]

That's right: Jean-Martin Fortier.

He's done an experiment to prove that ecological intensification and growing diversely on a small plot of land can be a successful model. He even publishes his income to motivate other farmers. Since then, a larger farmer has donated his land, because he wants to experiment with this model on larger plots of land. Now, I believe, he—

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

Thank you, Ms. Loftsgard. We have to move on.

Ms. Lockhart, you have six minutes.

[Alaina Lockhart, Liberal, Fundy Royal, NB]

If you would like to finish your thought, please, we would like to hear it.

[Tia Loftsgard]

It's a model that is being experimented with and that is now employing five people. The point is that you need different forms of tools, not tractors. You need to be able to implement different structures. He's making $140,000 per year, gross, on an acre and a half.

[Alaina Lockhart, Liberal, Fundy Royal, NB]

Wow, on an acre and a half; that's good.

You made the comment that there are fewer farmers than ever entering the sector. That is very disturbing when we hear about the growth potential for agriculture and how Canada is positioned to be a world leader in food production. I know that we're putting down the bases, and that communities and farmers and associations are all very focused on attracting youth. You mentioned the 4-H program, which I'm familiar with as a former 4-Her. It's a really great starting place.

We cultivate these young farmers early, create a peer base, give them training, and then there are these barriers. You mentioned AgriStability. There's innovation as well. Is it also a lifestyle thing? How much of a factor will innovation play in new farmers entering the sector?

[Paul Glenn]

I think it will greatly influence it. Farming is getting sexier, as they say.

[Alaina Lockhart, Liberal, Fundy Royal, NB]

Bev Shipley—

[An hon. member]

Don't let the story get out.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Alaina Lockhart, Liberal, Fundy Royal, NB]

Sorry.

[Paul Glenn]

It's a good joke.

The misconception is that farming is not—I'm not wearing my overalls and I don't carry my pitchfork. That's not agriculture. That hasn't been agriculture since I was born. The biggest thing now is with tech and biotech for seed sales and input sales. There are so many jobs in the agriculture sector and well-paying jobs too. It's a misconception that there are only very low-skilled, low-paying jobs in agriculture. They are not, in Canada especially, because we have to compete on the global scale and we're very competitive and very tech savvy. If farmers can make an extra dollar, we'll spend $10 to get that dollar, typically. We're very innovative and we're looking for new programs to increase production.

[Alaina Lockhart, Liberal, Fundy Royal, NB]

That's an area that you think the next policy framework should really focus on, as well, innovation from the perspective—I don't want to put words in your mouth, but investing in innovation for agriculture would also help attract new farmers.

[Paul Glenn]

Absolutely. Canola is a great example of that. I was saying the other day that we need a new canola because, as the other countries can produce soybeans and corn at a very cheap price, in Canada it's whether we should be growing those crops to be competitive. Maybe we should have something new or a high-value crop that we can market to the globe.

[Alaina Lockhart, Liberal, Fundy Royal, NB]

I'd like to go back to 4-H for a minute. Can you give us some idea about this? I'm sure it's a very small piece of the whole policy framework, as far as dollars invested go, but what is the current contribution? Do we know?

[Guenette Bautz]

I wouldn't have the numbers for 4-H per se. Our organization is funded among five. There are five of us in that group. Our organization, CYFF, would be the second lowest funded organization. The 4-H is a great program and it's our starting process to bring young farmers into our step, so we completely support 4-H and see it as a strong partner to our organization, but I wouldn't know the funding dollars of their contractual agreement. They've been around a much longer time than our organization has, so they've built some other forms and streams of support to help them execute the work that they do.

[Alaina Lockhart, Liberal, Fundy Royal, NB]

Has the funding been stable for CYFF?

[Guenette Bautz]

The funding has been a challenge for CYFF, although we have received agreements the last two GF category processes. We were cut in funding in the last round and the 50:50 matching made it very difficult for us to meet. We weren't able to execute all our activities because we didn't have the dollar for dollar to support it.

[Alaina Lockhart, Liberal, Fundy Royal, NB]

That's an important point to see what the impact was and to maybe focus on that moving forward.