Agriculture Committee on Nov. 24th, 2016

[Guenette Bautz]

Yes, I thank you for that. The greatest struggle that we faced was the reduction...no reporting for in-kind contribution. As a young farm organization, we have a lot of people who support us and put a lot of time and energy into helping us be successful and when we weren't able to report on in-kind, it was a huge block for us. It was a huge wall.

[Alaina Lockhart, Liberal, Fundy Royal, NB]

Okay, thank you very much.

I have a quick question for the Canada Organic Trade Association.

You had mentioned certification and transition and I know from speaking to an organic farmer that transition to becoming certified is harder than starting new. Can you speak to that for a minute...or 20 seconds?

[Andrew Hammermeister]

The transition process is very challenging, but there are systems—and this is where we need support to help farmers through the transition period and transition can be part of all of agriculture. It doesn't necessarily have to be organic as well. If programs are in place that support transition, which includes training of farmers and having access to professionals, that can be helpful for all farmers, as well as organic transitioning farmers. Policies and programs that support it are definitely very important and very helpful.

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

Thank you, Mr. Hammermeister.

Ms. Brosseau, you have six minutes.

[Ruth Ellen Brosseau, NDP, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'm going to follow up on that. In Quebec and P.E.I., there is help for that transition. I guess you're looking for something more global in this next framework to make sure that, for the transition, there is some kind of help to go from conventional to organic.

Can you explain what is done provincially, how much money is given provincially and what those provincial programs look like?

[Tia Loftsgard]

Sure. I actually brought a copy of both of the programs with me, so I could leave those with you.

Each is a bit different. They go into the cost per production capacity. Fruit and vegetables have a different pre-certification amount that would be subsidized versus that of greenhouse, and grains and oilseeds, etc. They both have a component that essentially gives a subsidy, or a subsidization, not only for the certification costs but also for the products that are being produced depending on it, because of the intensification and the needs for each one of these different sectors.

We've also done an overarching plan of what is available in all the other countries in regard to supporting organic that is a model, perhaps, for the Canadian agricultural community to look at so that when we're selling on an international market, we're not disadvantaged. Plus, we have a lot of imports coming into our market that we have to compete against. Cost-wise, when there are subsidy programs in all other countries, and a patchwork across Canada, we're looking for a federal strategy to make sure we remain competitive as an industry.

[Ruth Ellen Brosseau, NDP, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Could you elaborate on labelling for organics? Articles have come out over the last few years and recently on labelling issues. Can you explain a bit about the situation in Canada and other countries, maybe the U.S.?

[Tia Loftsgard]

Sure. In regard to the organic designation of products, we in Canada have three categories: made with organic ingredients up to 70%, the 95% organic, and then 100% organic certification. In Canada, you can use the logo on the last two. In the United States, they don't have the 70% category, I believe.

The method of the labelling is to make sure there is transparency about what is organic when you have some products that are not organic within there. Ingredient by ingredient, we have to put an asterisk, or really note and list the percentage on the actual package. That is a transparent method to convey to the consumers that they aren't being misled in regard to what is organic and what is not organic.

[Ruth Ellen Brosseau, NDP, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Thank you.

Thank you, Canadian Young Farmers' Forum, for being here.

I would like to inform the committee that this afternoon in the House of Commons we are going to be debating a great bill that concerns agriculture. It is a bill from my colleague Guy Caron. It would help the transfer of family farms. It would amend the Income Tax Act. It's a bill that I think would really help Canadian farmers and would help young farmers get access to farms, because there is an inequity right now. Maybe some of us will be speaking to this bill. I'm sure you are aware of this bill and will be following the debate.

Could you explain to the committee the importance of supporting young farmers? It's clear everybody agrees that we need to support young farmers by reducing this inequity. It's not just farms; it also includes fishing operations. Could you explain the importance of making legislative changes to the Income Tax Act to reduce this inequity?

[Paul Glenn]

It's anything to aid in the transfer of the farm. Obviously, there are usually large capital transfers that need to take place, and there are always huge tax implications when that happens, especially in supply management sides as well. For those farms to continue, you need a certain amount of land base, so it's not necessarily an option to sell off a portion of the farm just to continue a smaller portion of the farm. You typically need more land to continue on. Anything to support the transition, to aid with less tax, would be definitely an advantage for young farmers, and a priority, for sure.

[Ruth Ellen Brosseau, NDP, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Generally what sectors attract young farmers? Is it more organic? Is it more supply managed? Is it more les grandes cultures? Which sectors are more attractive for young farmers?

[Paul Glenn]

It's actually very diverse. Depending on your background, you might be interested in the organic side. It comes down to cost of production, as well. If you have only a few acres, as Tia said, to produce an actual income, a living.... A lot of young farmers have off-farm jobs. It's very common for them to start with full-time jobs, and then start their farm project. It's really tough to manage time. A lot of farmers are really hard workers and are eager. Really, they're taking a huge risk in agriculture, because it's not guaranteed.

[Ruth Ellen Brosseau, NDP, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

There's a lot of uncertainty. I think what is really important is restoring the business risk management programs. We've heard from witnesses all throughout this study, and I talk to my constituents back home about this. There were cuts in the last iteration of the program. When I spoke to some people, they said that they'd like to have certain programs restored to the first iteration of Growing Forward when it comes to AgriStability.

Could you speak to the importance of having those tools restored and bona fide to make sure that we are supporting farmers?

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

Madam Brosseau, sorry, but we will have to move on. Perhaps they can continue.

Mr. Peschisolido, you have six minutes.

[Joe Peschisolido, Liberal, Steveston—Richmond East, BC]

I'd like to welcome the witnesses to today's proceedings.

Paul, I was intrigued by your comment about urban faming. In my neck of the woods, just south of Vancouver, there's an individual, Bob Ransford, who's a good buddy of mine. He's just written a book with some professors at Kwantlen and UBC called Agricultural Urbanism, in which he discusses the value of focusing on small plots of land but, as you mentioned, high-premium products.

Can you elaborate a bit more on the how the framework agreement can help young farmers get into this type of agriculture?

[Paul Glenn]

I can't really speak a lot on urban farming because it is very recent. Definitely, it's an interest. As everyone has become a foodie, they want to know where their food comes from. If you grow your own food, it tends to taste better because you grew it. It's kind of a different aspect from us because these are people from urban areas, so they're not necessarily connected with our young farmer organizations now. More and more of our provincial organizations do have non-farm members because people are interested in agriculture, so they join the groups to learn more and to grow those very small plots on rooftops and even on balconies.

[Joe Peschisolido, Liberal, Steveston—Richmond East, BC]

Guenette, you mentioned the importance of educational institutions, high schools and universities. Following up on Kwantlen University, Kent Mullinix is the professor who heads up the program. He's taken the concept of urban farming and actually made it into full-time farming in Steveston in Delta, in the estuary there. The land is so rich because we get the nutrients and water from irrigation, and we can farm 12 months of the year. He's identified that the vast majority of the land can produce hundreds of thousands of dollars in profit.

I want to know if there are any particular programs that you think can attract young farmers to get into that type of farming.

[Guenette Bautz]

I'm not specifically aware of any programs that the agriculture institutes across Canada could offer. I think it's an opportunity for us to work together to bring that into discussions moving forward. The CYFF in the last two years has worked at building a bridge of connection to all of the agriculture institutes across Canada. It definitely could be something we could further discuss. If there were an opportunity to achieve that, we would.

[Joe Peschisolido, Liberal, Steveston—Richmond East, BC]

Thank you.

Tia, you mentioned earlier the importance of crop rotation and healthy soils. It seems that what you're describing is the traditional way of farming, husbandry, where organic farming is going back to the way civilization has farmed for 5,000 years.

Can you expand a bit on how we can use the framework agreement to help get a more diversified farming system?

[Andrew Hammermeister]

I guess I'll take that one.

I wouldn't describe it as just traditional farming techniques, because organic farming is very intentional about using crop rotations, designing systems to avoid pest pressure, and building healthy soils in a sustainable way. When we first moved out to the Prairies, for example, the soils were very rich, and you could kind of take advantage of that fertility. Now you can't. That's not there anymore. We need to have programs in place that really encourage soil building. This comes back to encouraging longer rotation systems.

P.E.I. has a crop rotation act that requires three-year crop rotations for special crops. We can also introduce requirements for legumes and incentives for growing legumes, especially perennial forages. If there's one thing that shows you can improve soil quality, it's including perennial forages in your cropping system for two or three years.

[Joe Peschisolido, Liberal, Steveston—Richmond East, BC]

Earlier on, Madam Lockhart talked about the importance of Canada becoming a world superpower in food, which we can do. You talked about the importance of market access when it comes to certification. A lot of our activity is north-south right now. That may change with the new regime in the United States, but there's also a huge demand from Asia, including China, Korea, Japan, and India, for our food.

Can you discuss a bit more about what our government can do to get the certification that we require in these countries to make sure that the products that are coming here are good, solid products, but also to help us expand into those markets?

[Tia Loftsgard]

I'll let Marie-Ève take that one, because she's our lead on trade equivalency agreements and international markets.

[Marie-Ève Levert, Director, International and Regulatory Affairs, Canada Organic Trade Association]

You're right in saying that there is a growing demand everywhere in the world. Asia is one of the next markets, especially Japan. You see Europe as well with double-digit growth every year.

You were talking about our label and what we do to make sure the products that are coming into Canada are certified.

Products coming into Canada are already certified to our standards. If a processor wants to import an ingredient from Brazil, the product needs to be certified by a third party certification body in Brazil and be up to our standards in order to be able to be shipped to our country.

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

I think we're going to have to end it there.

Thank you, Mr. Peschisolido.

Mr. Longfield, for six minutes.

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

You were mid-sentence, and I wanted to talk about trade as well, so if you could bridge us on that, it would be great.