Evidence of meeting #61 for Agriculture and Agri-Food in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was seed.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Executive Director, Canadian Horticultural Council
I think there's a difference to be made perhaps with the relationship we have with our U.S. colleagues or counterparts versus the other countries. There's a closer relationship with the U.S., obviously, because most of our trade is with them.
The discussions are certainly monthly, if not weekly, with certain groups that we participate in. With the NAFTA pesticide group, for example, it's really top of mind. I do know they have concerns regarding the MRLs as well. With the EU, it's less common—
Conservative
Bev Shipley Conservative Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, ON
Ken, you mentioned PACA, and you know that through that whole process it got separated away. The non-payment issue got settled. The outstanding issue.... Dr. Cumings presented to us and gave a breakdown that, I believe, actually helped both sides understand some of the complications and the complexity of it. It's around the bankruptcy part.
Almost a couple of years ago I thought we were at a stage of having that come forward and be resolved. Can you tell us now what you're being told in terms of the status of it from the government?
Chair, Trade and Marketing Committee, Canadian Horticultural Council
We're being told nothing. I'm not a politician. Apparently, when things go in cabinet confidence you're not allowed to talk about them, so we've been very patient, even though some of us are intensely impatient. It's been now a year since this committee recommended that you move forward. We've been pretty patient and nothing has happened. As far as we know, we're at the same place we were a year ago.
Conservative
Bev Shipley Conservative Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, ON
I may leave that, but there may be a further question.
Dave, we've been talking about trade barriers. We've had this report, and our committee took it on regarding neonics, and the ability to be competitive, and the scientific evidence for it. In Canada it looks like we're going to be heading towards the phase-out of it, whereas our competitors are not.
What type of impact does that have in terms of your seed production people and their ability to be competitive in terms of the United States mainly?
Director, Government Affairs and Policy, Canadian Seed Trade Association
The first round of neonic regulations was for Ontario only, but the problem is, to be able to develop the pesticide or insecticide, a company has to be of a certain size. It takes over $100 million U.S. to bring a product to market. The problem is, when they saw Ontario, they saw Canada. These foreign multinationals, when they're trying to get investment for Canada, don't see Ontario as a province within Canada. They see Ontario regulation as Canadians outlawing the use of neonics for corn and soybeans. That's how our multinationals saw it.
Now, PMRA has proposed a decision to phase out imidacloprid, which is one of the three classes of neonics. It's of huge concern. It's also sparked a special re-evaluation of the other two, thiamethoxam and clothianidin. Without access to those, our members will be at an extreme disadvantage. We have some smaller companies that operate on both sides of the border that might consider just operating out of the U.S.
Liberal
Alaina Lockhart Liberal Fundy Royal, NB
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you to each of you for appearing today.
One of the things that both of your groups spoke about was hazard-based evaluation systems, and your concern with those surrounding CETA. Can you elaborate a little bit more for me on what your concerns are about that system?
Director, Government Affairs and Policy, Canadian Seed Trade Association
Yes. I'm not a scientist, and we've actually spoken with PMRA about this. My understanding is that when it comes to especially a pesticide, a hazard-based assessment is sort of the beginning stages of what a risk-based assessment is. Hazard will look at a potential product, its profile, and whether there is a potential hazard there. If there is, then the EU often takes action. But in Canada, if it's identified as a hazard, then you get on to the risk, and you identify how the product is used, whether there are ways to mitigate it, and what levels are being used.
In my layman's opinion, risk is taking hazard to the full extent. If there's a hazard, we need to take action. Risk is like, there's a hazard, but you're only ever going to be in contact with parts per billion, and there are ways to mitigate that, including through personal protection equipment. That's our concern, that it's not as nuanced or as fulsome an evaluation.
Executive Director, Canadian Horticultural Council
The example I've been given to understand the situation is that the EU approach would be the equivalent of refusing to use electricity because of the risk of shock. We all know that if appropriate safeguards are put in place, the risk of electrocution is minimal. Basically, it's an all or nothing. If there's a hazard, then we're not even going to go there, whereas Canada will say, well, there is a risk, so let's see what we can do to minimize it.
Liberal
Alaina Lockhart Liberal Fundy Royal, NB
What steps do you suggest for going forward with that as a potential barrier?
Executive Director, Canadian Horticultural Council
Try to convince the EU to look at mitigation. There are international standards on that through the IPPC, which Dave mentioned earlier. They provide guidelines. They are international agreements on how to go through risk assessment and risk mitigation, so use those standards.
Liberal
Executive Director, Canadian Horticultural Council
Oh yes, there is the Codex.
Liberal
Alaina Lockhart Liberal Fundy Royal, NB
Very good.
I would also like to ask each of you what you see as the biggest potential market for your sector. What are the barriers that exist for that particular market?
Director, Government Affairs and Policy, Canadian Seed Trade Association
I'll start. Our biggest market is the United States. About 70% of our exports go to the United States, but some priority markets would be markets like Japan and China in particular. The TPP was something that really appealed to us because it encompassed all of those markets. Our preference has always been for multilateral as opposed to bilateral, because you get more equivalency.
The U.S. and the renegotiation of NAFTA is something we're certainly looking at. Oftentimes, when our members talk about it—our members usually operate on both sides of the border—they don't even see it as imports-exports; they see it as company transfers, so that's a big deal. When a company can't transfer internally, that becomes a major trade barrier.
Liberal
Alaina Lockhart Liberal Fundy Royal, NB
Do you see renegotiating NAFTA as an opportunity to align some more regulations?
Director, Government Affairs and Policy, Canadian Seed Trade Association
Yes. I think NAFTA renegotiations have often been looked at as a bad thing, but I think there are industries that exist now that didn't exist when NAFTA was negotiated, but it has to be done correctly. My hope is that the administration in the United States would take that approach.
Chair, Trade and Marketing Committee, Canadian Horticultural Council
We would like to see the TPP continue, even though the Americans aren't there. If we could negotiate a deal with all of those stakeholders at one time, that would work. If that breaks down, then it's all bilateral, and it will take more than forever. That's where we want to go with that.
As far as NAFTA is concerned, we need a little more protection, but some of the rhetoric we're hearing from the other country is that we're going to lose a lot of stuff, and that's not where we want to be. The fruit and vegetable industry is pretty much a free trade zone, and we certainly don't want to see anything hamper any of that.
Liberal
Alaina Lockhart Liberal Fundy Royal, NB
You mentioned, Mr. Carey, your counterparts in the U.S. and how close the trade relationship is. Is it the same with horticulture as well? Do your associations work back and forth in collaboration?
Chair, Trade and Marketing Committee, Canadian Horticultural Council
Yes. We were at a trade meeting the other day, and we all need each other.
Liberal
Alaina Lockhart Liberal Fundy Royal, NB
One thing that became really apparent to me recently—we did some research before we went to the U.S.—is that Canada is the biggest customer of many of the individual states. I can see, especially in horticulture, how those cross-border relationships are very important.
Chair, Trade and Marketing Committee, Canadian Horticultural Council
It's so important because of the perishability. If we are ever stopped at the border in those old “hold and test” days.... If you have a load of lettuce at the border for three weeks, guess what? It's not going across.
Liberal
Alaina Lockhart Liberal Fundy Royal, NB
It's not good.
Does country-of-origin labelling impact either one of your sectors at all?
