Agriculture Committee on June 15th, 2017

[Alaina Lockhart, Liberal, Fundy Royal, NB]

I appreciate that. It certainly wasn't my intention to pit one against the other. That's not productive. What I was getting at is, are we on the right track and are conversations happening on an ongoing basis? I think you've clarified that for us.

In your statement, Dr. Kochhar, you had said that CFIA would continue to assist with monitoring, diagnostic, and technical support as needed. What does that mean? What are the steps to do that?

[Dr. Harpreet Kochhar]

Thank you. Perhaps I might give a bit of precision on that.

One is the aspect of looking at what kind of expertise is needed. In these very complex investigations, we need to piece together all the information. Veterinary epidemiologists and those who can look at the surveillance and do the modelling, those kinds of expertise, do exist in CFIA. We have offered that to the Manitoba government. The provincial chief veterinary office has been in contact with us and we are doing that.

The second part is the diagnostic. There are confirmatory tests available should we need to test any swabs for the PED virus. We continue to offer our laboratory support right there in Winnipeg, Manitoba. So we can provide that. Secondly, one of the lines of inquiry has been, earlier, if you go back in the media, in Ontario, that it was linked to feed: spray-dried plasma. Manitoba has also made a request to us for some help in terms of the diagnostic on that particular aspect of the feed testing. We have procured the samples and are processing them in other laboratories. It's a very precise test. There's a component on which we have the capacity, capability, and expertise, and we are providing that.

We have a very open offer to Manitoba Agriculture, as well as the office of the chief veterinary officer of Manitoba, that in any situation where they need our veterinarians' advice, our inspection advice, or any other diagnostic advice, we would be available. We will certainly be available 24-7 to help them out with that.

[Alaina Lockhart, Liberal, Fundy Royal, NB]

Okay, thank you.

I'm not sure who mentioned it and in what testimony, but there also were cases in Prince Edward Island. Is that correct? What resources are available in Prince Edward Island to deal with this?

[Dr. Harpreet Kochhar]

Mr. Chairman, there was only case in Prince Edward Island, and that was in 2014. Since then no new case of PED has been found in P.E.I. The original farm has gotten to the point where it can test negative at this time.

[Alaina Lockhart, Liberal, Fundy Royal, NB]

Okay, thank you.

I'm skipping back and forth. Sorry about that.

You had mentioned that lab support was available for testing. Is it timely? What's the turnaround? If it were requested, how quickly would it be available?

[Dr. Harpreet Kochhar]

We have a very good relationship, and there is also a Canadian Animal Health Laboratorians Network, which our provincial counterparts are part of. For running just the diagnostic test for PED, you don't have to utilize CFIA laboratories. There are multiple other laboratories that can do it. But for any precision testing, or if the volume is too much, if we can provide help, it is exactly what we said: 24-7, we will be able to provide that support any time it is needed.

[Alaina Lockhart, Liberal, Fundy Royal, NB]

Okay, thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

Thank you, Mr. Lockhart.

Now we have Mr. Anderson for six minutes.

[David Anderson, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Is the crux of this the location of the washing stations? The industry wants them further from the border in convenient locations. CFIA is insisting that this needs to be done. Before you cross the border, the trailer needs to be determined as clean. Is that the crux of this whole thing? Looking from outside there seems to be a simple solution, but tell me about this. I'm giving you a chance to clear the air here on this whole issue.

[Andrew Dickson]

To us, the issue is that the U.S. wash stations are not regulated. We have no real idea as to whether they can provide the proper—

[David Anderson, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

I understand that. What do you want? What is the solution?

[Andrew Dickson]

What we would like to do is have these trailers sealed at the border, so that when the come back they're not washed and cleaned in the United States, but washed and cleaned in Canada at certified wash stations that we inspect with veterinarians.

[David Anderson, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

How far do you expect those stations to be from the border?

[Andrew Dickson]

We are in the process of writing a regulation to control that, and it would be the closest wash station to the point of entry. There will be minimum hours and stuff like this. They have to be there. They must only go there, not to any farms and so. There will be severe penalties if they diverge from that.

[David Anderson, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

Okay. Is the CFIA's concern about this the fact that you're not going to be able to supervise this thoroughly enough to make sure this is done 100% of the time? What is your reason for saying this is an unreasonable proposition?

[Barbara Jordan]

I would say that we're very interested in hearing about the program and engaging.

[David Anderson, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

You've heard about it. This is three years old. What is stopping this from happening this summer?

[Barbara Jordan]

We're engaged in discussions with the industry and the provinces now, as we speak.

[David Anderson, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

Okay. I just looked at the numbers. You had four cases in 2014 in Manitoba, and one in 2015. You introduced the protocol. It pretty well shut the cases down. There were five cases in 2016 after the protocol change. Now we have 22 in 2017. I hear Dr. Kochhar saying that we can't tie this directly or definitively to trailers, but as Mr. Maguire pointed out, why not eliminate one of the things that actually seems to be the likely factor here? We have 17 or more facilities now that are contaminated. What are the commonalities there? It's probably pretty easy to figure that out. Among their personnel, transport, and loading facilities, probably only two of those might come into play. I don't understand why people can't sort this out. Whether you have to move those facilities closer to the border and build one there, or if you have to make the accommodation.... We have GPS. We have all kinds of ways of tracking people if we need to do that these days. Why can't this be done to protect this industry, because it's going to be a huge loss?

[Dr. Harpreet Kochhar]

Mr. Chairman, if I may, let me also clarify this. Right after we actually instituted the interim protocol, there were still around eight cases after that particular protocol and until it was removed. So there were in-between cases, too. During the time of the removal between May 2016 and May 2017, there weren't any cases. Perhaps you'll kindly let me indulge in a bit of a professional opinion or expertise on that one. This is a virus that survives much more in the winter months. It is very confusing for other scientists, and other veterinarians to look at it in such a way, that in hotter temperatures.... I already mentioned that it's a fragile virus; it is in May. So there isn't a direct connection, Mr. Chairman, that we can actually allude to in the transport, as well as in the cases that are appearing, in that respect.

[David Anderson, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

However, you've spent part of our day telling us how you need to get this eliminated in Canada, and the Americans are moving towards doing that. Obviously, there are some ways we can do that. I don't understand, given the discussion, why we're going in the wrong direction here, and why an industry is being put more and more in jeopardy rather than finding a quick solution to this.

I'm glad that yesterday the minister said that now we'll at least talk, but we need to do something more than that. If that comes out of this committee calling a hearing, that's good, but we need some solutions quickly. This is escalating rapidly, and if that means forcing people to get those trailers to a facility and washing them twice, I don't care, but you need to do some things here, between you, to protect this industry.

[Dr. Harpreet Kochhar]

Mr. Chairman, as my colleague, Barbara, pointed out, we are in active discussions with Manitoba Agriculture, as well as with industry.

We already have a cross-border working group with industry and all the provincial chief veterinarians and other organizations to look at this problem through a wider lens. We remain committed to working with industry and with Manitoba Agriculture to find an amicable solution to this.

[David Anderson, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

Can you tell me about vaccine? You said that since 2014 veterinarians have been allowed to import this vaccine. I understand it's in very limited supply. Can you tell us a little about that?

[Dr. Harpreet Kochhar]

Mr. Chairman, this vaccine was actually given emergency approval. Normally the procedure is that we evaluate the vaccine for its safety, efficacy, and efficiency; however, given the intensity of the situation, the veterinary biologics from CFIA received interim emergency approval.

It is available to the veterinarians and the farmers who choose to use it. It is dependent upon when an order is put in and the manufacturer provides you with it.

Since it has only been given emergency approval, it is not available generally in the market, but as soon as there is a demand for it, the supplier has assured us that they will be able to provide it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

I want to thank the panel. That was a very informative discussion on this.

I want to thank Mr. Dickson, Ms. Jordan, and Dr. Kochhar for being here today.

Before you leave, Mr. Maloney, I want to apologize. You didn't make much noise and I never thanked you for being here, so thanks for being here.

Now I'll welcome Mr.—