Agriculture Committee on Sept. 21st, 2017

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

If Ms. Boucher is okay with me talking about the motion, I will do so with pleasure.

It won't take very long. I think that you are aware of the situation and that you have received a lot of mail from your constituents. Farmers are worried about the tax changes proposed by the Minister of Finance. Those changes have a major impact on the taxation of capital gains of family members, on the taxation of dividends paid to family members and on the taxation of passive income.

The consequences of those changes are a higher tax rate for family farms, difficulties with family transfers and an unfair system. The system will keep the wealthiest people from being affected by that tax reform.

That is why I think that, to understand the impact of those proposed tax changes, especially on family farms, it would be important to undertake this study as soon as possible.

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

Thank you.

Are there any other comments on what has been proposed?

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

I am not really opposed to Mr. Berthold's motion, but the Standing Committee on Finance normally looks into these issues. I am sure that it will have ample opportunity to do so.

We are ready to request a vote.

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

Are there any other comments?

Mr. Barlow, go ahead.

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I appreciate my colleague's intervention, but I would argue that this food policy study that we're doing right now would be the health committee, not even agriculture. It didn't seem to stop this committee from taking on a food policy study, which again I don't think is actually an agriculture issue, whereas this is definitely an agriculture issue. I think, if anything, in this study we would be able to perhaps address some of the misunderstandings, the misinformation, or just the confusion that's out there in the agriculture industry.

I've certainly had literally hundreds of phone calls and emails from my constituents. I have not had one who supports the tax changes, but the biggest question is that they don't understand exactly how this would impact them. I get the same response from accountants and tax attorneys, that they just have not had the time in those 72 days to take a look at all of the possible scenarios and how they are going to impact their clients.

I think it behooves us to take the time to address some of the confusion and the lack of information that's out there and try to clarify exactly how these tax changes would impact our agriculture industry. As the government said in its mandate letter, agriculture's going to be one of the key cornerstones of economic growth. So if these tax changes go through and they devastate the family farm or have a detrimental impact on agriculture, I think that's something we should know. I think this is just a top priority and I don't see why we wouldn't want to dig into this.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

Thank you, Mr. Barlow.

Mr. Peschisolido, do you have a comment?

[Joe Peschisolido, Liberal, Steveston—Richmond East, BC]

Mr. Chair, I think Mr. Barlow's right that as a Parliament we have to look at these tax changes, and as a Parliament we are doing so . There is a consultation process. The finance minister will bring forth proposals based on the consultation. I've had the same concerns from folks, and that's natural: it's a consultation process. I've had a town hall in Richmond with the chamber. I'm going to have another town hall on matters concerning which farmers have come to me. We have discussed it, and we're going to see.

I also believe, though, that there is a division of labour. As Francis mentioned, it will be looked into at finance committee. Here at the agriculture committee, we're looking at something that we should be doing: we're looking at a holistic approach to our food policy.

I agree, Mr. Barlow, that we should as a Parliament be looking at it, but this committee should be looking at food policy.

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

Are there any other comments?

Ms. Brosseau, go ahead.

[Ruth Ellen Brosseau, NDP, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

I think it's really important that we look at these measures. We are the agriculture committee. I know the finance committee will be looking at the subject eventually. What I'm really concerned about is that the consultations started in the middle of summer.

I represent a rural riding. We had floods in the springtime. Many of my constituents weren't able to work and plant as they wanted to. It was a really rough year for certain people who owned land by the St. Lawrence. When this consultation was announced, they were out working. Now and for the last little while we've been getting a lot of calls, letters, and emails.

I think it's really important that as the agriculture committee, which is supposed to stand up for farmers and agriculture here in Canada, we better understand the proposed changes. There is an opportunity to demystify what they are and maybe calm some of the fears.

Last year we had a wonderful bill before the House of Commons. I talk about it often, and I won't stop talking about it. It was my colleague Guy Caron's bill, Bill C-274, about transferring family farms, small businesses. Most of the members on this committee supported it. I don't know whether Mr. Saini or Madame Nassif supported that bill, but it was a really important bill. It would have helped the transfer of family farms. Sadly, that bill didn't even get to committee.

I think, then, that it is even more important that we, as members of the agriculture committee, look at these changes. In my constituency I get a lot of phone calls about this matter; I'm sure you get a lot of phone calls about it too. It's our duty to look at this.

My fear is that once it gets to finance committee, agriculture will just be puffed off. We are the experts. We have to look at this. I'm really hoping that the members on the other side would be open to looking at the matter.

We know that the government, the Minister of Finance, is consulting. I think we should extend the consultation period. We should be consulting and looking into this deeper at agriculture committee. I'm not saying that we stop doing this study on food policy, but I think we need to look at the subject, maybe after this study is done, because it has to be done in November.

We have 10 meetings—

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

It will be on October 5.

[Ruth Ellen Brosseau, NDP, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Anyway, I would hope that we would get to this as soon as possible, making sure that we look as an ag committee at the proposed changes and how they affect family farms.

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

Thank you, Ms. Brosseau.

Ms. Nassif, the floor is yours.

[Eva Nassif, Liberal, Vimy, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My participation in this committee was added to my parliamentary duties. So I am new to the committee.

Since witnesses are present, I suggest that we put off this discussion, as important as it may be, until the end of the meeting, so as not to waste the time of witnesses who have come to share their views on agriculture and food.

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

Thank you, Ms. Nassif.

Are there any other comments?

If not, we've been asked to proceed with a recorded vote.

(Motion negatived: nays 5; yeas 4)

Thank you.

Your six minutes have expired.

We will move to Madame Nassif.

[Eva Nassif, Liberal, Vimy, QC]

As I already said, I thank the witnesses for their presentations.

My first question is for you, Mr. McLinton. Food waste and food loss are two problems that particularly affect Canada. Some countries have implemented rules that prevent food waste in specific circumstances. I believe that France has already prohibited waste by supermarkets.

However, I find it troubling that it is not natural for companies and individuals to behave like this. We know that food security is precarious and that we have food surpluses. Companies like Loblaws and Sobeys, which have a lot of reserves, definitely have a fairly high percentage in terms of food loss.

Do companies of that size avoid giving away extra reserves because, if that practice was established across the country, the cost of transportation and labour would be too high?

If so, how can we remedy the situation and what industries do you think will be the most affected in that case?

[Jason McLinton]

Thank you, Ms. Nassif.

Let me start by saying that food waste is an absolute critical priority for every one of the Retail Council of Canada's members. It isn't only the right thing to do from a consumer perspective, it also financially doesn't make sense to be losing product, so on a number of levels this is critical to our members.

Every single one of the members of the Retail Council participates in food waste programs from composting to fleet management. For instance, there's making sure that when a refrigeration unit comes in with product it also is going back out with, for instance, produce for composting and that sort of thing. Again, that makes sense both from an environmental and a food waste perspective, as well as from a financial perspective.

Every one of them has partnerships with food banks in order to minimize food waste. The members I've been speaking with have indicated that the food banks currently don't have the infrastructure to handle all of the products that the members are in a position to donate to them.

That being said, I want to raise two critical elements here, number one is Canadians who look to food banks in order to supplement their diets deserve the same level of food safety as any other Canadian, so when there's a food that is past its expiry date and when something becomes dangerous, it's the responsibility of the retailer to dispose of that product in a way that is safe.

Number two, a big portion of food waste has to do with what's happening in the home. That's a big part of the conversation that I find isn't always part of the conversation and should be. I think of the role of consumer education in terms of how long you can store a raw meat product, for example; how long can you store it after it's cooked; how to properly store it; hand washing; refrigeration; all that kind of stuff. I think consumer education is a critical part of that piece and that's where the members continue to invest a lot of their energy and that's worth pursuing.

[Eva Nassif, Liberal, Vimy, QC]

Thank you.

My second question is for Mr. McGuinness.

Last Tuesday, a witness from the Conference Board of Canada told us that no regulations similar to those on agriculture were currently being considered for fisheries.

In consultations on food policy, how does the lack of fisheries regulations affect industry?

How can we remedy that in consultations on food policy?

[Patrick McGuinness]

I find your comment amazing. The fishing industry of Canada has a wide range of regulations put on it by the Department of Fisheries and Oceans. With respect to the food safety element, we're subject to Health Canada's rules and regulations and to CFIA. We have probably the most advanced—and it's recognized internationally—food safety regime out there. It is an asset to everyone. So I'm quite surprised that the Conference Board would make that comment. I think it's totally off-rail.

We founded an organization called the IAFI, the International Association of Fish Inspectors. The founders of that were the Fisheries Council of Canada and the U.S. organizations. We had a fantastic conference in Iceland two weeks ago and 450 people participated. We're trying to bring in fish inspectors from developing countries so that the advancements we've made and the knowledge we have will be spread throughout the world. The bottom line is that 60% of the seafood exported in the world is coming from developing countries, so we're in there trying to make sure there's as much food safety as possible. We see that, and we know we are an international market. That's why I'm totally surprised at that comment.

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

Thank you, Mr. McGuinness and Ms. Nassif.

Ms. Brosseau, go ahead for six minutes.

[Ruth Ellen Brosseau, NDP, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I am really happy that we are talking about food waste.

I think it is very important to prioritize buying local. I do it every summer and whenever possible. During the summer, there are a number of public markets, which I also visit. This year, that gave me an opportunity to talk a bit about food policy.

At the NDP, we have been working on developing a food strategy for several years. In 2014, we developed and unveiled our food policy—our strategy and vision for agriculture. We were the only party to do so before the 2015 election, and I am really proud of that. I am happy that the Liberals are holding consultations and are creating their own strategy.

One issue that comes up often is food waste. During the summer, I had an opportunity to participate in a press conference held by Moisson Lanaudière. For some time, Moisson Lanaudière has been working with retailers from the region. IGA and Metro make donations to Moisson Lanaudière. In Mauricie, Moisson Mauricie/Centre-du-Québec has virtually the same program, and I know there is a similar program in Montreal. It is important to ensure that the poorest people who are in need have access to healthy food.

Last year, I introduced a bill asking the federal government to take action by planning the development of a national strategy to reduce food waste.

Mr. McLinton, you talked about the importance of funding to fill the gaps in infrastructure. Trucks and refrigeration systems are needed. Can you tell us more about the importance of making a recommendation on that kind of a program or on the support that must be given to food banks in terms of supply and transportation of food from retailers to aid organizations?

[Jason McLinton]

Thank you, Ms. Brosseau.

Well, I'm in a position to comment from a retail perspective, as opposed to a food bank perspective. Every one of the members I represent has partnerships with food banks, and every one of them I've spoken to has said that the food banks are not equipped to handle the amount of product they're able to provide to them. I would agree very strongly that this is a conversation worth having. It doesn't limit innovation and flexibility. Because this is being done on a voluntary basis already, I'm quite convinced that regulation is not the way to go. In respect of infrastructure and that sort of thing, however, I think this is absolutely a conversation worth having.

[Ruth Ellen Brosseau, NDP, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

One thing that was included in the bill I had before the House—and sadly it didn't even get to committee but was voted down—was to talk about education. You are right that a lot of the food is wasted at home. We need to make sure that people know how to keep food and store it properly, and also pay attention to make sure they don't eat food that is too funky and that can make them sick. I think that's something that could be included in this food strategy: the education part on how to store food and keep it.

[Jason McLinton]

I agree very strongly. We do some of that work already with Health Canada. They're a wonderful partner with us in terms of producing materials. We're talking about social media and all this kind of stuff. We are enthusiastic partners about doing more of that.

[Ruth Ellen Brosseau, NDP, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

The ag minister announced the food strategy and he will be leading it, but it will obviously touch on other departments like Health and Indigenous and Northern Affairs. We need to get the nutrition north program right, because we're talking about a lot of people who are food insecure, and the further north they are, the harder it is to get fresh and affordable food.

I'll throw the question out to everybody: does anybody have any examples of how alignment didn't occur in the collaboration between different ministers' offices? Do you have any suggestions on how this could be handled correctly? It's going to include a lot of actors.

Mr. Harrison.

[Gordon Harrison]

I'd like to comment on that.

I spoke about misalignment, and that is the misalignment in what is actually being done in terms of active outreach to consumers. There may well be good partnerships with members of the Retail Council who are dealing with consumer education, but we really aren't seeing that consumers are becoming more informed, in my opinion. I don't think there are statistics to indicate that we've really moved the dial to make a lot of improvement in the number of consumers who can comprehend labels and comprehend how to handle food, store it, etc. There has been a misalignment. We have this conflict in which we're telling consumers in Canada and in importing countries that we have a wonderful safe food system, while at the same time we're telling Canadians they have a one in nine chance of being sick from food every year. Statistics don't support that. That's a misalignment.

I cannot speak to access. A very significant problem you're talking about is having local and regional access to a wide variety of foods, but I do believe that there is far too little effort and far too little public expenditure going towards consumer education on nutrition and other things.