Agriculture Committee on Oct. 5th, 2017

[Ruth Ellen Brosseau, NDP, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank the witnesses for their presentation.

In particular, I want to thank Mr. Lampron, whom I hadn't seen for a long time. Mr. Lampron is a dairy farmer in Saint Boniface. He was elected president of Dairy Farmers of Canada. I'm very happy to meet him as the president of this organization.

I believe the words I say the most often in the House of Commons are “farmer” and “supply management”. For a period of time, it was “diafiltered milk”. We're currently renegotiating NAFTA. In this context, we're following Donald Trump's tweets. We don't want to believe everything they contain, but they sometimes scare us. When we signed NAFTA, milk was not at stake. However, certain leaks regarding the subject and some news going around indicate that the Americans really want to take on our market and have access to it.

Can you comment on the subject?

I believe that we're in the fourth round of NAFTA renegotiations.

Can you talk about the importance of protecting our supply management system and not creating a breach in the system?

There have always been breaches in our other trade agreements, in particular the Comprehensive Economic and Trade Agreement, or CETA, and the Trans-Pacific Partnership Agreement. We must fully protect our supply management system and ensure that this issue won't make it to the negotiating table.

[Pierre Lampron]

Thank you for the question.

It's partly related to what we're talking about, meaning the first pillar concerning cost-effective production. We're talking about giving access to the market, protecting the environment and covering the territory. The farmers can't be asked for everything. We never know, during negotiations, whether we'll be given access. We're reassured, but it's still a concern. The United States, like all other countries, protects its agriculture and farmers. Mr. Leduc, our trade specialist, could talk about this matter.

[Ruth Ellen Brosseau, NDP, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

We've also wanted this for a long time.

[Pierre Lampron]

We're also asking for this. However, for young people and women to take an interest in farming, they must have a prospect of a decent income. Of course, it's difficult to interest the next generation in a farm that isn't profitable. To ensure that a new generation can emerge, we must implement effective marketing systems and provide the opportunity to earn a good living from our farming. It's very important. We still want to be excluded from NAFTA, since agricultural products aren't like other goods.

[Ruth Ellen Brosseau, NDP, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

We haven't even talked about CETA and the cheese entering the country.

Mr. Leduc, do you have any comments on this matter?

[Yves Leduc]

I want to expand on Mr. Lampron's point.

The Farm Bill, in the United States, amounts to over $100 billion in all kinds of assistance. The food stamp program, which helps the most disadvantaged people access agri-food products, is part of this assistance. The assistance also benefits farmers because it supports the demand. Therefore, there are benefits for both parties. We're a bit concerned about this issue when it comes to a possible Canadian food policy. We must take things into consideration when we talk about both ensuring that the most disadvantaged people in our society have access to nutritious food and establishing an agri-food policy that includes exports. There may be some conflicting interests here.

[Ruth Ellen Brosseau, NDP, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Leduc.

Madame Fenton, thank you for your presentation to the agriculture committee.

We've had many witnesses at the committee talk about the right to food. This is a big endeavour going forward in putting forth a food strategy. There are some things that need to be addressed. We talk about Canadians using food banks, and the number seems to go up every single year. Some things we need to address are to ensure we have better jobs for people, a $15-an-hour minimum wage, a basic income for Canadians, and the right to food.

In 2012, Olivier De Schutter came to Canada and presented a scathing report on the situation. Food sovereignty is very important, as well as the right to food, the right to safe and healthy food, and drinking water.

You made some recommendations in your briefing. Could you explain a little more what food sovereignty is, what a food sovereignty food policy would look like, and go over some important recommendations we need to have in our report after the consultations here today?

[Ayla Fenton]

To summarize, I would say that food sovereignty, as I mentioned, is about people's ability to choose what food they want to eat and how that food is produced. As they decide, they should be able to afford food that is culturally appropriate and safe for them to eat. The issue is not that we need more affordable food or cheaper food; it's that we need a poverty reduction strategy so that people can afford food at the cost of production of the farmers producing it. Farmers need to earn a fair living. Most farmers in Canada do not earn the cost of production on what they're producing, with the notable exception, of course, of those under supply management.

We think programs like supply management and farmer-controlled marketing boards, in general, are very important, but these need to be paired with poverty reduction strategies like a basic income guarantee.

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

Thank you, Ms. Fenton. I have to stop it here.

You have about three minutes, Joe.

[Joe Peschisolido, Liberal, Steveston—Richmond East, BC]

Thank you.

Madam Fenton, you mentioned that you're an organic farmer, and you sell into Kingston through the Internet or online. I have a lot of organic farmers in Steveston—Richmond East who do the same thing in metro Vancouver, but who are also selling into the market in Seattle and in Portland.

How can a national food policy help farmers like you expand, not just at farmers' markets, but into regional and maybe even a national export market?

[Ayla Fenton]

One of the main things that limits direct marketers' and small-scale farmers' ability to grow is food safety regulations that are designed for industrial scale production and processing. What we would like to see, ideally, is some flexibility in that system and a recognition that a one-size-fits-all regulatory approach does not work. Somebody selling eggs to their neighbour or to people down the street should not have to adhere to the same expensive and onerous regulations as somebody who is producing 10,000 cartons a day and shipping them all over the country.

A lot of conversation is coming up now with the Safe Food for Canadians Act, in that direct marketers are really concerned because it will very much limit their ability to market across provincial boundaries, especially in areas like Atlantic Canada where a farmer in New Brunswick would likely sell into New Brunswick and Nova Scotia. Even with just something like vegetables, they are no longer going to be able to do it unless they invest in a wash station and a processing station that will probably cost them more than their annual income from the vegetables they're selling.

We would like to see more diversity in the regulatory environment.

[Joe Peschisolido, Liberal, Steveston—Richmond East, BC]

Thank you, Madam Fenton.

Mr. Lampron, you mentioned that our national food policy was an opportunity to start an in-depth dialogue.

How can the federal government facilitate this dialogue?

[Pierre Lampron]

The government is listening to us and consulting everyone, which is already a good start. You must continue to consult us and include the farming community in your discussions.

[Joe Peschisolido, Liberal, Steveston—Richmond East, BC]

Mr. Froese, you talked about the importance of baselines for an assessment of the environment. In the 20 seconds you have—and perhaps you'll have a bit more—can you elaborate a little on that?

[Jack Froese]

We're talking about a sustainability basket and economic drivers. You have to be economically sustainable, socially responsible, and environmentally sustainable as well. That basket can only hold so much. The more you throw in on the social and environmental side, the more we'll be offside on the economic side, and we're going to need that whole-basket approach to solve our Canadian food problems.

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

On those words, we're going to have to end the session.

I want to thank everyone who is here: Ms. Scovil, Mr. Froese, Monsieur Lampron, Monsieur Leduc, and Madam Fenton. Thank you so much.

I will ask that we quickly thank our guests. We're going to clear the room because we're going to have an in camera session in15 minutes. Please, let's do it quickly and come back to our seats.

[Proceedings continue in camera]