Agriculture Committee on March 7th, 2018

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

Yes, we voted against that.

So, to write a letter to both of them—

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

To take action....

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

—to take action by any means.

[An hon. member]

Including whatever's necessary—

[Ruth Ellen Brosseau, NDP, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

And penalties.

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

Okay, it's for an order in council and penalties. Okay.

Are there any comments?

Mr. Berthold, you have the floor.

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I think that the debate on the letter to the Senate is over. In any case, we've just seen that several groups are asking the Senate to change Bill C-49. Let's let the Senate do its work and respond to grain producers who are requesting amendments, and let's deal with that which concerns us directly.

What concerns us is the Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food and the Minister of Transport, and the western grain crisis. It's important that we ask these two ministers to act. That is why we will support the NDP motion asking the committee to write a letter to the two ministers, so that cabinet may intervene immediately in this dossier.

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

Thank you, Mr. Berthold.

Mr. Peschisolido, you have the floor.

[Joe Peschisolido, Liberal, Steveston—Richmond East, BC]

Mr. Chair, I think this was a phenomenal meeting. I commend the members of the committee who called the meeting. I think everyone is on the same page. There is a situation. It's a problem, and we need to fix it. I think everyone is getting on board.

I was very pleased, as I mentioned earlier, to receive a copy of a letter, a strongly worded letter, sent by the Minister of Transport and the Minister of Agriculture to the rail lines, CN and CP, asking specifically what our stakeholders have asked for, what the farmers are asking for: fix this backlog; show us a plan that says how you'll get rid of the backlog; and then, once the backlog is gotten rid of, what will you do to put in a proper plan, systemically and holistically, to ensure that this problem will never occur again?

We've heard from CN. They are going to act. There's a deadline of the 15th. That's what our stakeholders have asked for. The companies CN and CP will, I assume, or I hope—if not, there will be penalties—put forth their plan. They will communicate with the ministers.

That's what the ministers have done. The government has acted. That's how our government ought to operate. We have a role as an agriculture committee. There is a role of ministers, of MPs. We're all acting together, not in a partisan way but in a co-operative way, to fix a problem. That's what government is all about. When there's a problem, we fix it. The Minister of Transport and the Minister of Agriculture reacted properly. They told the rail lines that there was a problem and to do something. CN, to its credit, came out and said, yes, we may have dropped the ball on this one; we're going to act.

So let's play this out. I'd like to commend the Minister of Transport and the Minister of Agriculture for acting. Let's see what occurs. On the 15th or before, we'll see the plans from the rail lines. Then we'll hear from all the stakeholders.

Again, it's a great thing that we had this meeting today. We'll follow up on the 19th. We'll do our role as a committee. The ministers are doing their role. Farmers are putting pressure on the rail lines. The government is putting pressure on the rail lines. I'm assuming that the rail lines will act, because there will be consequences if they don't.

I think it's a good thing. We're moving forward very quickly. I'd like to commend Monsieur Berthold, Monsieur Barlow, and the other two members of the committee who asked for this meeting. They are not here today, but they asked for the meeting. That's a good thing. I think we are working together on this.

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

Thank you, Mr. Peschisolido.

Mr. Drouin, you have the floor.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'm not so sure that writing a letter to the ministers and asking them for action now will solve the issue. They have acted. The House has acted. What we need to do is pass Bill C-49. I understand that it may not be perfect. I remember when my mother used to make me dinner. She would put a steak on my plate, and peas and rice. I didn't like the rice, but I still ate it. It wasn't perfect, but I was thankful for it. I think the best action we can take is pass Bill C-49. I'm failing to understand....

Here we are, going back and forth, arguing about whom we should write. The quickest action this committee can take before March 19—I do recall that we are meeting with stakeholders on March 19—is to send that letter to senators, because they will be meeting, and they have to respond to that. I don't necessarily agree with sending a letter to the Minister of Transport and the Minister of Agriculture when we know that in fact they have acted. They have sent a letter to the rail companies. They have acted on this issue. Their hands are tied, because they don't have the legislative power to act. That's called Bill C-49.

[A voice]

[Inaudible—Editor]

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

That's called Bill C-49. It needs to pass. An order in council is not going to get passed by March 19, I can guarantee you that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

Order.

Monsieur Berthold.

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

Mr. Chair, we should let Mr. Drouin speak more. Indeed, the more he speaks, the more we realize that he should pay more attention to what was done in the past. First, the first grain crisis was settled by a minister through a decree. I can't get over it. All the member is suggesting is inaction. He suggests that we write a letter to the Senate, which owes us nothing, to ask it to accelerate things, even if the result is imperfect. This makes no sense.

I want to say to my colleague Mr. Peschisolido that we are not really the government here. We are the committee. You acknowledged that holding that meeting allowed us to put pressure on CN and CP to find solutions. Our role at the committee is to exert pressure on the government, and that is why I want us to send a letter to the government to remind it that in the past, the government has used the power of cabinet to act immediately. It did not have to wait for legislation to be passed. That is why we have to send this letter to the ministers. We want to act and send a clear message to the cabinet and the ministers. The Standing Committee on Agriculture and Agri-Food, which is not the government, must play its role by exerting pressure on the government.

The letter sent by the two ministers asks both companies, without imposing the least consequence, to present a plan so that we may perhaps see a solution soon, and that is all. For our part, we want to remind both ministers of the importance of their role. The Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food may have forgotten that he has a seat at the cabinet table. We are here to remind him as often as possible of the fact that occupying that seat allows him to make decisions, and that we want to see him make one to resolve this situation. He does not have to wait for the railway companies to take steps. He can act right away to settle this crisis.

It is important that we remember our role. Announcing that this emergency meeting would be held today did produce some effects. All of a sudden, a lot of people reacted, including CN, CP and the government. The government began to write letters, which we had been asking it to do for more than a week, to no avail. We all seem to like to write letters; remember that the first proposal requesting a letter was made by the Liberals. The only way this committee can act to solve this crisis is to write to both ministers to ask them to use all of the tools and powers at their disposal to have the railway companies respect what is in the letter we received today, or deal with consequences.

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

Thank you, Mr. Berthold.

Mr. Barlow, you have the floor.

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

Thank you, Chair. I'll be quick.

I'm looking forward to the meeting on the 19th because it's clear that our colleagues are going to learn some things that I don't think they quite understand. First of all, the quickest action isn't sending a letter to the Senate. The quickest action is doing an order in council. That wouldn't take weeks. It would take perhaps hours for cabinet to pass that through a couple of ministers if they had the intestinal fortitude to make that decision and take action.

For Mr. Peschisolido, I appreciate that he came the furthest, even further than I did, but assuming that the rail lines will act and that there are consequences if they don't.... That's the whole issue, right? There aren't consequences if they don't. That's what we're asking for: to ensure that there are consequences.

The letter we need from the Minister of Transport and the Minister of Agriculture is about what definitive action, what steps, they are going to take. Let's say the March 15 deadline comes and CN and CP have tabled a plan, which they should have done months ago and should have taken action on: that isn't going to resolve the problem in the immediate future. What actions are the Minister of Transport and the Minister of Agriculture going to take to get the grain moving? That is the critical question we're asking. As of right now, because we've voted down having those ministers appear as part of that meeting, we aren't going to know the answer to that, and I think it's vitally important that we have an action plan from cabinet that outlines what they are going to do to address the situation in the immediate future, not at some future point down the line.

Thank you.

Again, I want to thank my colleagues for making the trip here. I appreciate it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

Thank you, Mr. Barlow.

Madame Brosseau.

[Ruth Ellen Brosseau, NDP, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Thank you, Chair. I'm really hoping that we can do what was done in the past and what has happened often in the agriculture committee: we leave politics at the door. We come into this room and this committee and we put farmers' best interests at the forefront.

Once again, I think we need to remind, I guess, the Minister of Transport and the Minister of Agriculture of what they could do. As I said before, there were measures taken by the Conservative government in 2013 and 2014. The Minister of Transport could take those measures now to improve grain movement immediately. That's what people are looking at us to be doing. They're looking at us to find solutions. This is something that can be done today or tomorrow: writing a letter and making sure that we're reminding and putting pressure on the Minister of Transport and the Minister of Agriculture. It's something that will get things moving faster, hopefully. As for writing to the Senate, as you well know, the senators are not working this week and next week. Then they are back, and we are back and sitting on the 19th.

There is a sense of urgency, and I think everybody around this table can agree that action needs to be taken. I guess my concern is, why is there such a push-back from members on the other side of the table? Why are you so reticent—almost afraid—to put pressure on these ministers to act? I remember the Conservatives back in the day. We all worked together. Even when they were in government, we found common ground and we came to an agreement.

I would like to remind my colleagues on the other side that you have a job to do, and a responsibility. You have to put pressure on your own government and the ministers. I'm hoping that we can agree unanimously to write a letter to the Minister of Transport and the Minister of Agriculture asking them to immediately take up all the tools that are available to them. If they do go ahead with an order in council and penalties and if grain is not moving in an appropriate manner, it's time to take out the big stick. I think we're at a point where there is no choice. I'm hoping to have agreement from the Liberals on the other side.

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

Thank you, Madame Brosseau.

Mr. Peschisolido.

[Joe Peschisolido, Liberal, Steveston—Richmond East, BC]

Mr. Chair, I agree wholeheartedly with Monsieur Berthold and Monsieur Barlow—Madame Brosseau is no longer part of the committee—that our role as members of the parliamentary committee on agriculture and agribusiness is an important one. We've all flown back here: the five members on the government side or the Liberal Party, and two of the opposition members. The other two couldn't make it. We all came back because this is a serious situation.

We're going to meet again on the 19th for four hours, and I believe that we have put pressure on the Minister of Transport and the Minister of Agriculture, because they have reacted. We'll see what occurs with the rail lines, but we'll see.... Our stakeholders, our farmers, have said, “You know what, committee members, let's act.” They've said that by the 15th they want a plan. They want to know how we're going to get rid of this backlog, and then, moving forward, how we're going to have a systemic, holistic approach to make sure this doesn't happen again.

It's a work in progress, a step forward, but we've done our part as a committee, and I think we have put pressure on the ministers. They've acted. We'll see in the next few days how the rail lines will react. I think the first reaction from CN has been positive, but time will tell. If they don't act accordingly, then I'm sure other things will occur. As a committee, we've done our work. Once again, I'd like to commend the two members from the floor who asked for this special committee meeting.

I think it's a work in progress.

I see that it's three o'clock, Mr. Chair, and I'm not sure if I can continue—

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

The time has expired, and unless there is a request to continue, I will have to suspend until the following meeting.

[Ruth Ellen Brosseau, NDP, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Chair, I think it's urgent.

Can we agree, at least, to write a letter to the ministers? No? There is no agreement on the other side?

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

It looks as though we don't have agreement, so we shall suspend until the next meeting.

The meeting is adjourned.