Evidence of meeting #91 for Agriculture and Agri-Food in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was c-49.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Sean Finn  Executive Vice-President, Corporate Services and Chief Legal Officer, Canadian National Railway Company
Michael Cory  Chief Operating Officer and Executive Vice-President, Canadian National Railway Company
Jeffrey Ellis  Chief Legal Officer and Corporate Secretary, Canadian Pacific Railway
James Clements  Vice-President, Strategic Planning and Transportation Services, Canadian Pacific Railway
Rick White  Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Canola Growers Association
Ron Bonnett  President, Canadian Federation of Agriculture
Mark Dyck  Senior Director of Logistics, G3 Canada Limited
Tyler Bjornson  Consultant, Western Grain Elevator Association
Gerry Ritz  As an Individual
Jeff Nielsen  President, Grain Growers of Canada
Ian Boxall  Vice-President, Agricultural Producers Association of Saskatchewan
Warren Sekulic  Director, Alberta Wheat Commission
Daryl Fransoo  Director, Western Canadian Wheat Growers Association
Dan Mazier  President, Keystone Agricultural Producers

3:30 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Pat Finnigan

I call the meeting to order.

Welcome, everyone, to our Standing Committee on Agriculture and Agri-Food meeting. Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) and the motion adopted by the committee on Wednesday, March 7, 2018, the committee commences its study of the grain transportation backlog.

I would like to welcome, from the Canadian National Railway Company, Michael Cory, Chief Operating Officer and Executive Vice-President, and also Mr. Sean Finn, Executive Vice-President, Corporate Services and Chief Legal Officer. From the Canadian Pacific Railway, we have Jeffrey Ellis, Chief Legal Officer and Corporate Secretary, and Mr. James Clements, Vice-President, Strategic Planning and Transportation Services.

I welcome all the members of the committee. We shall start with an opening statement.

We're going to start with you, Mr. Finn, if you wish, for up to seven minutes for your organization.

3:30 p.m.

Sean Finn Executive Vice-President, Corporate Services and Chief Legal Officer, Canadian National Railway Company

Thank you.

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair and members of the committee, for the invitation to appear before you today.

Our colleague and newly appointed CEO Jean-Jacques Ruest has asked Michael Cory and me to be here to talk about CN and our current challenges in western Canada when it comes to moving the grain.

My colleague Michael Cory is the Chief Operating Officer at CN, and he runs a railway across North America. Mike is a Winnipeg native. He joined the railway 37 years ago, so he's seen a lot of winters across those 37 years at CN. He ran the western operations for many years and is extremely knowledgeable about the challenges of moving grain. Mike will deliver the balance of our statement.

I will of course be very pleased to answer your questions when the time comes.

Mike, the floor is yours.

March 19th, 2018 / 3:30 p.m.

Michael Cory Chief Operating Officer and Executive Vice-President, Canadian National Railway Company

Good afternoon, everyone.

I'm only going to spend a brief part of my time discussing the circumstances that put us in this position. I believe it's more useful to focus on what we have done and are doing to recover and ensure that our service is back at the levels that you and our customers have come to expect as quickly as possible.

At the outset, let me point out that the situation has not been taken lightly by CN. On March 5, the CN board of directors took unprecedented, decisive action. You're probably aware that we have a new CEO, J-J Ruest, and within two days of taking up the position, J-J acknowledged our service issues, apologized to our customers, and pledged to do better on behalf of all of us at CN.

The challenges we have been facing are not specific to grain. All areas of our business have been impacted. CN has been facing a capacity and resiliency challenge over the winter.

After six consecutive quarters of flat to negative growth, we underestimated the level of growth that was about to come at us. We're not alone in this; the Bank of Canada and many of our customers also greatly underestimated the strength of the Canadian economy. This has left us seriously stretched, with little resiliency in some corridors.

Frac sand and intermodal traffic are both up very significantly. Forest products, coal, potash, and virtually everything we move saw an increase in volume. Grain volumes were not a surprise and the grain car fleet is sufficient to handle the volume; however, locomotive power and crews have presented a serious challenge, along with winter resiliency that wasn't there this year. We simply did not have enough locomotive power or crews to deal with the rapid increase in business. Hiring and training operating personnel takes a minimum of six to nine months, and there is also a long lead time for acquiring new locomotives and for building capacity.

The increased business also led to bottlenecks at a number of locations on the network. Through the fall and early winter, we were getting by and providing fair service, but we did suffer setbacks in the late fall owing to mainline incidents, including a severe windstorm that blew a train off a bridge in Alberta, shutting down the main line until the bridge could be repaired.

However, as our CEO recently said, we had a horrible February. When the extreme cold hit us in February, forcing us to shorten our trains and requiring even more locomotives, crews, and network capacity, our service deteriorated badly to levels that were clearly unacceptable to our customers and to every one of the hard-working, dedicated CN employees who take great pride in their work.

While our grain service prior to February did not match last year's record numbers, in every month from September to January we moved the third-highest volume of grain in CN's history. This clearly was not sufficient, but not so weak that we cannot recover over the balance of the crop year.

I am pleased to say that we are already making good progress in turning things around in moving the backlog that accumulated in February. In week 31 we spotted 5,349 grain cars, including 772 customer cars, at Prairie elevators; in week 32, we spotted 5,953 cars, including 905 customer cars, and in the week that just ended, we spotted 5,742 cars, including 647 customer cars.

As a reference, we view 4,000 CN cars per week as the normal sustainable capacity of the system in a normal winter operating condition, and 5,500 CN cars as being the sustainable capacity outside of winter and when the port of Thunder Bay is open.

We are confident that we can maintain this pace through the spring. We are committed to catching up, as we are with all of our customer traffic. Our car placement numbers to the week for grain are not yet in line with where they need to be, but there has been significant improvement.

To begin turning things around, the first thing we needed to do was relieve network congestion, particularly in the very busy Edmonton-Winnipeg corridor. We undertook a number of measures to temporarily restrict traffic in this corridor to gain fluidity and velocity in our network. Only by reducing congestion could we create more capacity and resiliency.

We had to make some tough decisions to restrict and regulate the flow of cars into this congested part of our network. For example, we implemented a system controlling the flow of both incremental frac sand and crude cars.

We have also established a 24-7 situation room of cross-functional representatives at our network operations centre in Edmonton to review critical customer issues and to prioritize their movements.

Turning to other actions we have taken to add capacity to our system, in the short and medium term we added 250 qualified conductors in the fourth quarter of 2017, and an additional 400 will have completed their training and be in place by March 31. We will be adding a further 375 conductors in the second quarter. That said, we are still hiring, and there remains a challenge to find new labour at some remote locations. Our national training centre in Winnipeg will remain at full capacity.

With regard to locomotives, CN added 34 new high-horsepower locomotives in Q4 of 2017, and that was all we could get from the manufacturer. We also leased 130 locomotives, some of which required upgrading, but almost all of which are now online. For the longer term, we have placed an order for over 200 new locomotives and will begin to receive the first 60 in the second half of this year.

CN has a strong record of investing in our network. Even in the years with weaker growth, we maintained a very robust capital spending program. Earlier this year, our board of directors approved an increase in our capital expenditures from $2.7 billion to a record $3.2 billion. Over $250 million of this increase will be spent this spring and summer on projects in our western region to increase both track and yard capacity and to create fluidity that will build a base of capacity and resiliency before next winter.

If there is one thing that has become clear from this year's challenges, it's the need for better sharing of data among the supply chain stakeholders. Bill C-49 will require railways to provide even more data than at present, and we accept that. We are, however, only one link in the supply chain, and we are concerned with the lack of data provided by some of the other supply chain participants. For all of us, transparency with all partners in the supply chain is in our interests, and it ultimately benefits the Canadian economy.

Recent actions by our board of directors and all of us at CN have shown how seriously we take these service issues that have adversely affected our customers. Our capacity challenges will not go away overnight, but we have acted aggressively to address them, and I am confident that our service will continue to improve for the grain sector and all parts of our business going forward.

Thank you.

3:35 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Pat Finnigan

Thank you very much, Mr. Cory. You're right on time.

Mr. Clements or Mr. Ellis, you have up to seven minutes.

3:35 p.m.

Jeffrey Ellis Chief Legal Officer and Corporate Secretary, Canadian Pacific Railway

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'll begin and then pass it over to my colleague James.

I'm Jeff Ellis, Chief Legal Officer at Canadian Pacific. I'm joined by James Clements, our Vice-President of Strategic Planning and Transportation Services.

Thank you for the opportunity to discuss CP's grain service and the recent challenges the grain supply chain has been experiencing. We acknowledge that as a supply chain we need to do better.

First, however, let us begin with some context.

Although the grain supply chain has had to manage significant operating challenges in recent weeks, including a recovery from extreme weather conditions this winter, CP's crop year-to-date grain shipments through week 32, which is March 4 through March 10, have increased by 3%, or approximately 450,000 metric tons, the equivalent to roughly 22,000 truckloads of grain. In other words, we've moved more grain this crop year, even while the entire grain supply chain copes with difficult operating conditions.

Extreme weather has been a challenge for CP this year, especially in February. Although we plan extensively for winter each year, this winter was unusually harsh. Compared to last year, conditions across our network were on average significantly colder, and for longer periods of time. We've also experienced unusually large snowfalls along much of our network, causing some significant outages. When temperatures reach below -25°C, trains must be shortened and moved at slower speeds to ensure safety, which is critical to our operations. These difficult conditions caused a reduction in our network velocity and overall system capacity.

CP is also experiencing significant and largely unexpected demand, especially in western Canada, part of which is coming from dual rail-served territories in the northern catchment areas of our network.

CP strategically plans each year for the upcoming grain crop. This year the crop was originally forecast at approximately 65 million metric tons, but came in at closer to 71 million metric tons. This variation represents a difference of 6 million metric tons, with much of the additional production occurring in the northern catchment area of the Canadian prairies because of dry conditions in the south. Notwithstanding the challenging operating environment, our shipments have increased by 30% in this crop year to date.

It's also important to note that we are facing significant demand across numerous lines of business.

All of that said, we can and will do better. My colleague, James Clements, is going to speak to that more specifically.

3:40 p.m.

James Clements Vice-President, Strategic Planning and Transportation Services, Canadian Pacific Railway

Thanks, Jeff.

Honourable members, we are pleased to report that our rail network performance is improving. The grain supply chain is on the road to recovery

Our operations team has been focused on moving grain and working extremely hard to rebound from the weather challenges in February. The data and evidence provide encouraging signs that a recovery has taken hold.

Week 32—March 4 through March10—saw grain shipments increase by 22% compared to the previous week, totalling 484,000 metric tons of grain. This is the highest weekly volume we have moved since mid-December.

Our daily network throughput has increased by 8% compared to last week, and is up by more than 16% overall since mid-February. We placed 10% more empty railcars in the country in week 32 compared to the week prior, a further sign of incremental gains being achieved. I am happy to report that we are up another 5% in week 33. Our network velocity is also improving, with train speeds up approximately 13% this past week versus mid-February.

As weather conditions moderate, we expect the positive trend to continue through March, with a further lift as the port of Thunder Bay reopens. Until Thunder Bay is available, we expect heavy demand for railcars out of Manitoba to ship all the way into the Vancouver corridor.

CP continues to add both crews and locomotives to support a strong recovery. We are adding more than 700 new employees, who are currently in various stages of training, and we are adding 100 locomotives, which will start being integrated into the fleet through the summer.

We have also deployed a “SWAT team” of retirees and CP managers to provide additional crew capacity, which is helping ensure the system recovers as quickly as possible.

As we move into spring, we are taking strong precautionary measures to avoid operational constraints caused by adverse environmental conditions, such as the heavy snowfall melting and the resulting runoff, as well as avalanches.

CP's avalanche monitoring and control program continues to work closely with all stakeholders through B.C.'s mountainous transportation corridor, including Parks Canada and the B.C. highways ministry, to constantly monitor present and forecasted weather conditions that could adversely affect the corridor.

We have also commenced our spring thaw surveillance program, which has strong protocols in place to monitor conditions and respond effectively in the event of high water conditions across our network. Early indications across most of CP's network east of the Rockies are pointing to an average to below average threat for spring flooding. Although we remain optimistic the snow will melt slowly, all precautions are being taken with respect to potential avalanche and spring flooding disruptions.

We continue working closely with our customers to deliver on the commitments of CP's grain products and services to meet their needs. Beyond these measures, we have earmarked between $1.35 and $1.5 billion for capital improvements this year to help strengthen the capacity and fluidity of the supply chain.

Capacity-enhancing infrastructure investments are critical to realizing long-term gains to the overall performance of the grain supply chain. This is particularly true in regard to the market's preference for Vancouver as the primary and growing outlet for grain. CP is hopeful the Government of Canada will prioritize investments under the national trade corridors fund for projects that will enhance supply chain capacity in this corridor.

In closing, as we have said previously, CP strongly encourages the swift passage of Bill C-49 by the Senate. Although imperfect, this legislation will provide additional certainty for the grain supply chain, particularly with respect to the potential new hopper car investments.

Again, thank you for the opportunity to be here today. We would reiterate that in spite of the difficult operating conditions this winter, CP is committed to improvement and is still moving more grain than we did last year, and we are well positioned to have a strong year overall.

Thank you.

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Pat Finnigan

Thank you, Mr. Clements and Mr. Ellis, for that presentation. Now we shall start our question round. To start we have Mr. Berthold and Mr. Barlow, who will split their time.

You have six minutes, Mr. Berthold.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Luc Berthold Conservative Mégantic—L'Érable, QC

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Many thanks to the officials from the two railway companies who are with us today.

We called for an urgent emergency meeting two weeks ago to catalyze action for our producers, who don't get paid when grain doesn't move. Unfortunately, the Liberals didn't think it was urgent. The minister didn't even think it was serious at one time. They didn't want to listen to farmers earlier. We asked to have this meeting last week, but we were refused. Signs were there in the fall that we were facing another impending grain backlog crisis.

Farmers are in a cash crunch, and our international reputation is eroding. The railways have a responsibility to Canadians, in my opinion, to honour their contracts and to move commodities. That is their mandate.

There are just two main railways that serve all of Canada, and we rely on them for our exports and our economy to run smoothly.

As to the matter before us, grain transportation, we had a big problem and we failed. You said that grain shipments were up by 16%, but if you compare that to a slow week, you cannot say that those are good results. When you say that the rate has improved by 16% since mid-February, when the results were poor, I do not consider those good results.

There is still a lot of work to be done. As soon as the crisis became evident, we should have asked the ministers to intervene and force the rail companies to play the role that all Canadians expect of them.

My first question is for the CP officials.

Further to our request for an emergency meeting, the minister sent a letter that clearly called on you to publish your plan on your website by March 15. I was not able to find that plan, however. Can you tell me where it is?

3:45 p.m.

Vice-President, Strategic Planning and Transportation Services, Canadian Pacific Railway

James Clements

We have made the letter available on our website. We did so by the 15th. I can get the link for the committee so that you can find where we posted it. We made that available, along with a white paper on the current—

3:45 p.m.

Chief Legal Officer and Corporate Secretary, Canadian Pacific Railway

Jeffrey Ellis

We sent it directly to the minister as well.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Luc Berthold Conservative Mégantic—L'Érable, QC

There was a request that all people could easily find it. I didn't find it. I think most of—

3:45 p.m.

Chief Legal Officer and Corporate Secretary, Canadian Pacific Railway

Jeffrey Ellis

My apologies. We will rectify that.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Luc Berthold Conservative Mégantic—L'Érable, QC

Thank you.

Next, is it only weather? I just heard from you about weather. I think that in Canada we have had this kind of weather for 100 years and more. Can you explain why it's different this year?

3:45 p.m.

Chief Operating Officer and Executive Vice-President, Canadian National Railway Company

Michael Cory

I can explain that for CN, it wasn't just weather; it was an unprecedented volume increase. We had a view of a much lower volume increase coming into the system, roughly 3%. It ended up growing to be 11% in a variety of commodities. On top of that, the weather was more severe for us than in the last two years, which definitely compounded the fact that we weren't prepared for that volume increase.

3:50 p.m.

Vice-President, Strategic Planning and Transportation Services, Canadian Pacific Railway

James Clements

On our side, we would agree that it was more than just weather. There was volume. As we mentioned, we're seeing in some specific parts of our network a very focused increase in demand. We're performing in the northern parts of our operating territory at 30% more grain volume than traditionally is moved. This is where the crop is. This is where the crop wants to come from. That creates some challenges. Then you throw what was worse than a normal winter on top of that.

Yes, we've had winter for 100 years, but the weather we've seen is on the extreme end of what you experience within those 100 years. I think one of the statistics was that the cold snap we had in December and January was the coldest and the earliest since 1886. It's more than 100 years since we've seen an event like that. It was worse than normal.

3:50 p.m.

Chief Legal Officer and Corporate Secretary, Canadian Pacific Railway

Jeffrey Ellis

To follow up briefly on that, when you get to below -25°C, it's not a question so much of preparation as it is of physics. Metal becomes brittle. You're at risk of derailments. Rubber hoses crack and leak. You have to operate more slowly in order to operate safely. That's just one of the conditions. It's like driving more slowly on the highway during a snowstorm. It's a safety consideration.

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

Luc Berthold Conservative Mégantic—L'Érable, QC

Okay. John, did you have a question?

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

John Barlow Conservative Foothills, AB

Thank you very much, Luc.

I appreciate everyone being here to explain some of the situations and some of the steps you're taking to address them. I'm happy to see that you're not just blaming the winter weather, because that was certainly a very popular excuse out there, not necessarily from the rail lines.

Even if it wasn't from weather—you're saying there are other things—we started talking about this issue back in October. We certainly saw it from our stakeholder groups and the phone calls that we were getting, and you yourselves have said that you saw this as being a much larger harvest than what was anticipated.

You can never predict what the weather is going to do, but you announced last week the steps you're going to take. Why did you not start taking some of these steps in October or even January, when we saw these numbers falling below 50%? We've been through this before. You knew some of the steps that you could take.

There was also an article last week that stated that the United States National Grain and Feed Association has also called out CN and CP for very aggressive layoffs and service reductions, which are also impacting your services south of the border.

You saw some of the issues that you were facing. Why didn't you take some of the steps that you've announced you're going to take now much earlier in this process?

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Pat Finnigan

Unfortunately, Mr. Barlow, we're out of time, so I'll have to move on.

Mr. Longfield, you have six minutes.

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

Lloyd Longfield Liberal Guelph, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to all the witnesses today. This is a serious problem that we know you're working on collaboratively with the government. We've seen evidence of the actions that you've committed to taking and that you are taking. Moving forward, hopefully we'll see Bill C-49 get through the Senate so that we can make further gains in investments.

Starting with CP and Mr. Ellis, could you describe what the delay in Bill C-49 means to your capital investment programs?

3:50 p.m.

Chief Legal Officer and Corporate Secretary, Canadian Pacific Railway

Jeffrey Ellis

Certainly.

Again, we don't think of Bill C-49 as a perfect bill. We think it's a compromise, and an appropriate one.

From our perspective, we are eager to go forward and make a capital investment in hopper cars, which is going to increase capacity in the network for grain for the foreseeable future. We stand ready to deploy anywhere from $1.3 billion to $1.5 billion over 2018, as soon as we can get the certainty we need that the bifurcation that is presently within Bill C-49 will come into play.

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

Lloyd Longfield Liberal Guelph, ON

In terms of bifurcation, we're talking about sharing the benefit of the capital investment with the other rail lines—

3:50 p.m.

Chief Legal Officer and Corporate Secretary, Canadian Pacific Railway

Jeffrey Ellis

Precisely.

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

Lloyd Longfield Liberal Guelph, ON

—versus having the return go to your shareholders.

3:50 p.m.

Chief Legal Officer and Corporate Secretary, Canadian Pacific Railway

Jeffrey Ellis

That's correct.