Agriculture Committee on Feb. 27th, 2020

[Neil Ellis, Liberal, Bay of Quinte, ON]

We talked a lot about AgriStability. This program has been changed in the past. Could you talk about when it was changed, what it was changed from, the uptake limits and what effect they had.

You did give some numbers here: in 2017, $290 million and in 2016 $503 million was paid out in the program. Do you have numbers going back to when it was the old program to compare with the new numbers that we have today?

[Paul Samson]

Yes, we have those numbers. Let me contextualize them a bit before we turn to the actual numbers.

Of course, the amount that's paid out in any given year for AgriStability depends on how the season went in terms of the costs that were borne in the production, the international prices and things such as that. The major variation you see from year to year is usually driven by events external to the actual producer's operations and not by what the program looked like exactly. They are a major factor, anyway.

Francesco can note a couple of the figures here.

[Neil Ellis, Liberal, Bay of Quinte, ON]

I'm sorry to interrupt you, but I guess I wanted to ask about.... I have spoken with many farmers who said they used to use the program but are not using it now, so that the uptake isn't as large as it was before.

That's what I was trying get at. Is it a true statement by farmers, that whether because of the paper work to do or other reasons it's just not worth it now with the lower limits?

[Paul Samson]

Before we get into the numbers, Chair, I'll answer by saying that when the trigger was changed from 85% to 70%—

[Neil Ellis, Liberal, Bay of Quinte, ON]

When was that done?

[Francesco Del Bianco]

It was changed from Growing Forward to Growing Forward 2, so it would have been between 2012-13 and 2013-14.

[Neil Ellis, Liberal, Bay of Quinte, ON]

Okay. Thank you.

[Paul Samson]

Does that answer your question sufficiently?

[Neil Ellis, Liberal, Bay of Quinte, ON]

How much time do I have left?

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

About a minute and 45 seconds.

[Neil Ellis, Liberal, Bay of Quinte, ON]

You identified AgriStability, AgriInvest, AgriInsurance, AgriRecovery and AgriRisk. Are there any more programs that we should have? What are the gaps we're missing?

There's a great suite here, but is there anything that the stakeholders are coming to you about to say that we need such-and-such a risk management tool? Are there any new ideas that the department is looking at to help our farmers?

[Paul Samson]

There are two parts to the answer I would give.

First, I mentioned that at the December ministerial meeting last year there was a decision to incent the use of private insurance to complement the existing AgriStability program. That's part one—to give farmers more tools and more potential coverage.

The only other thing I would note is that business risk management programs are complemented in a general sense by the other programs I mentioned under the Canadian agricultural partnership, with $3 billion over five years. Those programs can also help farmers.

[Neil Ellis, Liberal, Bay of Quinte, ON]

The minister's mandate letter includes looking at these suites. Do we have a plan to take input from our stakeholders or have a round table on this that will be speaking with farmers and bringing them in?

[Paul Samson]

There are two parts to that. The first one is that ministers agreed that provincial and territorial ministers would have some regional consultations. So they will be doing their own discussions, essentially between last December and when they meet again in July, face-to-face.

The federal minister has plans to reach out on an ad hoc basis to connect with producers. We have a formal table known as the national program advisory committee, in which producers come together with the provinces and the federal government to engage and consult on plans.

[Neil Ellis, Liberal, Bay of Quinte, ON]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

Thank you, Mr. Ellis.

Mr. Perron, you have six minutes.

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Thank you very much for joining us today.

A few minutes ago, we talked about the AgriStability program. Have you looked at the possibility of increasing the margin coverage to 85%, the percentage that was in effect before 2013? That's a very pressing request from the community.

Have you assessed the impact of the 2013 cuts on the use of services and compensation? I think there were actually far fewer cuts.

[Paul Samson]

Thank you for your question.

I can say that, indeed, the 85% coverage is one of the topics that we are discussing with your provincial and territorial colleagues. However, we don't have a specific plan on this. Everything is connected.

On the issue of cost, as I said earlier, when the government decided to change the percentage from 85% to 70%, new programs were implemented to supplement it. As far as this change is concerned, there isn't really a complete separation. We don't have any figures to measure this impact.

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

In this case, can you estimate the cost of setting the margin back to 85%? Also, have you considered removing the margin cap?

[Paul Samson]

In terms of the cap, the limit, the reference margin, I can confirm that it's something we are looking at with our provincial and territorial colleagues. These discussions will continue over the next few months.

Generally speaking, I would say, however, that we don't have any specific plans on this.

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

You are looking at AgriStability but, as I understand it, you're also looking at all the programs.

Would it be possible to carry out a thorough overhaul of the programs, to harmonize them again? Is that possible, or is your approach more a matter of making ad hoc improvements to each of the programs?

[Paul Samson]

Thank you for your question.

We are looking at the changes that need to be made separately, but since all the programs are connected, our approach is also comprehensive.

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

With regard to AgriInvest, I would like to know if it would be possible to create a tax exemption for withdrawals made by businesses for the specific purpose of reinvesting it to improve their productivity.

[Paul Samson]

With respect to this tax aspect of the AgriInvest program, the decision and analysis rests solely with the Department of Finance. In fact, tax issues are the exclusive responsibility of the Department of Finance.

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

You don't make recommendations?