Agriculture Committee on May 12th, 2020

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

Good afternoon, everyone.

I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number nine of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Agriculture and Agri-Food. Pursuant to the orders of reference of April 11 and April 29, 2020, the committee is meeting for the sole purpose of receiving evidence concerning matters related to the government's response to the COVID-19 pandemic. The order of reference of April 11 also stipulates that only motions requesting scheduling specific witnesses can be considered by the committee and that such motions shall be decided by recorded vote.

As you know, today's meeting is taking place by video conference and the proceedings will be made available via the House of Commons website. The webcast will always show the person speaking rather than all the committee. To facilitate the work of our interpreters and ensure an orderly meeting, I would like to outline a few rules to follow.

Interpretation in this video conference will work very much like a regular committee meeting. You have the choice at the bottom of your screen of floor, English or French. When you intervene, please make sure the language channel is set to the language that you intend to speak, not the floor. This ensures the best sound quality possible for our interpreters. This is very important. Also, before speaking ,wait until I recognize you by name. When you are ready to speak, you can click the microphone icon to activate your mike.

I also want to remind you that all members and witnesses should address their comments through the chair. Members who want to seek the floor when it's not their turn to ask questions should turn on their microphones and raise a point of order. If a member wishes to respond to a point of order raised by another member, they must use the “Raise Hand” feature. By doing so, they'll let the chair know that they wish to speak.

To do so, please click on “Participant” at the bottom of your screen. When the list appears, you'll see, next to your name, that you can click on “Raise Hand.”

Speak slowly and clearly and make sure that your microphone is off when you aren't speaking. As you know, we strongly encourage you to use a headset. If your headset has a hanging microphone, make sure that the microphone doesn't rub against your shirt when you're speaking.

If you encounter technical difficulties, such as problems with hearing the interpretation, or if you're accidentally disconnected, please inform the chair or the clerk immediately and the technical team will try to resolve the issue. Please note that we may need to suspend the meeting at that time to ensure that all members can fully participate.

I want to ask all participants to click on the top right-hand side of their screen to make sure that they can see everything. That way, you should be able to see all the participants in the grid. This will enable all participants in the video conference to see each other.

Finally, just as we usually do in a regular committee meeting, we will suspend between panels or sections of the agenda.

With that, I will introduce the guest for the first hour, the Minister of Agriculture, Marie-Claude Bibeau.

Welcome, Minister Bibeau.

We're proud to have you here. Your schedule is certainly full at this seeding time and given everything else. Thank you for being here today.

You have 10 to 12 minutes to give your presentation. The floor is yours.

[Marie-Claude Bibeau, Liberal, Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food]

Thank you.

I appreciate the opportunity to join you today to discuss our government's ongoing response to the COVID-19 pandemic as it impacts our agriculture and agri-food sectors.

The COVID-19 crisis has Canadians realizing how important it is to have the wide range of food that our farmers, ranchers, processors and agribusinesses provide. They prove their resilience, innovation and adaptability in the face of these extraordinary circumstances. However, we know there are big challenges and we are taking action.

As you know, last Tuesday the Prime Minister announced a series of measures to help Canadian farmers and food processors continue their vital work. This amounted to over $252 million, as well as $200 million in added buying capacity for the Canadian Dairy Commission. We also announced important program changes, such as increasing the AgriStability advance payments to 75%, which the Government of Alberta estimated would represent a payment of $20 per head for pork producers.

The financial measures announced last week build upon a number of other measures we have taken to support our farmers, ranchers, food processors and the entire value chain. We've also put in place measures to help safely welcome temporary foreign workers, up to $50 million, and $20 million towards the Canadian Food Inspection Agency. We deferred $173 million in advance payments program loans for cattle, grains and flowers, and added $5 billion in lending capacity to Farm Credit Canada, which has already resulted in over $4 billion in deferred loans to thousands of producers.

Of course, in Canada, we already have all the risk management programs. Every year, these programs deliver about $1.6 billion to help producers who are facing financial pressures, as is the case right now. That number is expected to be even greater this year.

As you know, these programs are cost-shared with the provinces and territories. We know that the risk management programs need improvement. I've been actively working on the programs with my provincial and territorial counterparts. However, the programs are already available and must be used on a priority basis.

We'll keep improving our programs or creating new ones, depending on the specific needs of each sector of the industry, the gaps and the extra needs caused by COVID-19.

I'd like to now clarify some of the measures that we've taken so far.

To encourage producers to enroll in AgriStability, we've extended the application deadline to July 3. Where the provinces have enacted the changes, producers can now access 75% of their expected benefit, up from 50%.

To help them, we've set up an online calculator for simulation purposes. It's not necessary to have the final financial results for 2019, since a simple estimate is enough to obtain the advance payment.

There's also the AgriInvest program. This program is a savings account to manage decreased revenues. Producers can obtain an annual $10,000 subsidy if they also contribute $10,000 to their AgriInvest account.

Currently, the AgriInvest accounts of Canadian producers contain approximately $2.3 billion in accumulated funds.

The Prime Minister also announced two new federal investments under the AgriRecovery program. First, up to $50 million will serve as a set-aside program to help cattle producers cover the extra costs of keeping animals on the farms while they wait longer to be processed.

I was very happy to see the Province of Alberta announce $17 million towards our federal cattle set-aside initiative, joining their 40% contribution to this cost-shared program, and another $50 million to help pork producers cover costs of managing their surplus animals due to the temporary closure of food processing plants.

These changes to the AgriRecovery program represent real leadership from the federal government on our business risk management programs. This has been a very urgent request from industry. We have listened and delivered on significant changes on how the AgriRecovery framework operates.

Recognizing this unprecedented crisis, the federal government will make available its 60% contribution in all provinces or territories, whether they contribute their share or not. Also on AgriRecovery, we are boosting the coverage by the federal government of eligible expenses from 70% to 90%.

On AgriInsurance, we are asking the provinces and territories to include labour shortages as eligible risks under the program. This would help to ensure income lost by producers because of an insufficient workforce.

These measures add to the significant work we have been doing to address labour shortages. For example, through the incredibly hard work of the government, in collaboration with leading industry groups, such as F.A.R.M.S. and FERME, we were able to welcome over 11,200 workers in April. That is 86% of the number of workers we were expecting in April 2019.

Also, last week the Prime Minister announced $3 billion for wage top-ups for low-income workers in essential services, such as agriculture. While Quebec has already announced its wage top-up plan, we look forward to seeing plans from other provinces soon.

Our food processors are vital to our food supply and our economy. Across Canada, food processing plants have slowed down production or temporarily closed as a result of the impact of COVID-19.

We understand the health concerns of workers in these plants. Workers need to feel safe and be safe when they go to work. That's why we are also investing $77.5 million in support of food processing, to implement measures to protect the safety of their workers while maintaining production.

This funding will ensure we can expand our capacity for Canadian-made products, by adapting and reopening plants that have closed or are operating under capacity. This funding is additional to the $62.5 million we announced to help fish and seafood processors.

We are also working to ensure the safety of workers by removing all tariffs on the importation of personal protective equipment.

We're also helping to address the surplus of food across Canada. Farmers, such as potato producers, are facing higher surpluses as a result of the closure of restaurants and establishments in the hospitality industry. We'll invest $50 million in a surplus food purchase fund to distribute the food to organizations such as food banks, which serve the most vulnerable in our communities and in remote and northern regions.

To help manage the surplus of dairy products, we're proposing to increase the borrowing capacity of the Canadian Dairy Commission, or CDC, from $200 million to $500 million. This additional support will enable the CDC to increase its supplies of dairy products, such as butter and cheese. This measure directly addresses the request of the dairy industry.

Our government will work with you and all our parliamentary colleagues to implement the legislative changes required for this vital measure.

In conclusion, Mr. Chair, I want to thank all the committee members for their dedication to the sector. The women and men who work on farms, in processing plants and throughout the food production chain are providing an essential service during this extremely stressful time. We're grateful to them.

I'm determined to ensure that the sector is well-positioned to continue to serve Canadians and to keep feeding the world. As we begin to restart the economy, we'll build on these measures to help Canada's agriculture and food industry lead our country on the road to recovery and success.

As the Prime Minister said, we've been and we'll continue to be there for our agriculture and agrifood industry every step of the way.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

Thank you for your presentation, Minister Bibeau.

We'll now move on to questions.

We'll start with you, Mr. Barlow. You have the floor for six minutes.

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Minister, you say that you have agriculture's back, but the announcements you made last week have been universally panned by the agriculture sector as being woefully short of what is needed.

To put that in perspective, Dr. Sylvain Charlebois said we are at the real risk of losing 15% of our farms. That is 30,000 farm families that are at risk of bankruptcy.

Do you have any idea what the ramifications of losing 30,000 farms would be on the security of our food supply and the cost of groceries on the store shelves?

[Marie-Claude Bibeau, Liberal, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

Mr. Barlow, that is definitely something that I don't want to see. We want to support our farmers in all the sectors, and we have made some additional announcements.

Once again, we have to keep in mind that the business risk management programs are there. I know producers would like to have these programs be more generous, and we are working with the provinces on this issue. Still, we have made AgriStability easier to access, not more generous but easier to access. It's really worth it. That is why we have put the calculator online, so they can see for themselves that there is money available to them.

Also, we have increased the advance payments. They can get up to 75%, where the provinces will agree, and I'm confident that most of them will. I've already had a few producers try the system. They recognized that it wasn't exactly what they expected, but it's still significant. They should use this money.

It's the same with AgriInvest. There is $2.3 billion—

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

Thanks, Minister. I appreciate it, but we only have a certain amount of time.

We've heard about AgriInvest and AgriStability, but just for your own information, if a farmer were to actually apply for AgriStability—and fewer than 35% actually do—on an average 1,200-acre farm they would get a cheque for $980, which is actually less than the subscription cost to get into AgriStability. There has not been a stakeholder group anywhere in the country that has said what you've announced is sufficient.

For example, on the $77 million you've announced for the processing, which Mr. Forbes said last week would be available to get Ryding-Regency back up to address processing capacity, we're now learning that those funds might not be available until well into the fall. How is that going to address the bottleneck in processing capacity if those funds won't even be available until well into the fall, or maybe six months away?

Do you know when those funds will be made available?

[Marie-Claude Bibeau, Liberal, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

It's a matter of a few weeks. We will make the criteria known very shortly. I was still working on it earlier today. It's almost ready to be shared publicly. We wanted to do some consultations with the stakeholders.

These funds will have to be disbursed before the fall, so that might be where the confusion came from. These funds are to be utilized before the end of September. They are to meet emergencies and to help the processors put in place the right measures to protect their employees, first, and to continue to operate.

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

Earlier this month, your department announced that it is halting all field research in agriculture. Why was that decision made during a pandemic when our grain and oilseed producers rely so heavily on that research and how important it is to the sector? Why have you halted all scientific field research in agriculture?

[Marie-Claude Bibeau, Liberal, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

Well, I want to reassure you that we intend to start the research work at the pace that other research centres will be able to reopen following the recommendations of the different local and provincial public health departments.

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

We've heard from many stakeholders in the agricultural sector that exempting them from the carbon tax would be very helpful during the COVID-19 pandemic to put some more money in their pockets.

We asked an Order Paper question about the costs of the carbon tax on agriculture and the response that we received from your department was that the information is secret. Why are you withholding the carbon tax data and the cost of the carbon tax to agriculture? Why is that being kept secret? Why will you not share that with producers?

[Marie-Claude Bibeau, Liberal, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

We have made the verification on that and actually, the analysis has been made public. There was some information directly related to the budget that was secret, but the report is available for the public. After the session, I can make sure that you get the link to the report, if you don't already have it.

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

You've also mentioned several times that farmers should be applying for the CEBA program, but most farms—just about every single one we've spoken with—do not qualify for the CEBA because of the salary and the wage eligibility requirement.

Are you in discussions to expand that eligibility so that farmers can qualify and apply for the CEBA?

[Marie-Claude Bibeau, Liberal, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

As you noted, the first programs that we put in place were aimed at reaching the greatest number of people and the greatest number of businesses—small, medium and now large businesses. We are following up with the different sectors and trying to fill the gaps. This is a gap that has been identified, but we're still working on it to see how we can support them.

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

Thank you.

Thank you, Minister Bibeau.

Now we have Mr. Blois for six minutes.

[Kody Blois, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister, for your time here today.

Minister, obviously with the announcements that we've made to date, is it fair to suggest that those have been made to try to address some of the concerns that have arisen to date as a result of COVID-19? Is that fair to say?

[Marie-Claude Bibeau, Liberal, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

Absolutely, yes.

[Kody Blois, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

The Prime Minister has acknowledged that our government is willing to support more. Is that your position as well, as these challenges present themselves?

[Marie-Claude Bibeau, Liberal, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

Yes, we have put in place some complementary programs to the BRM programs, so I'm really encouraging producers to use as much as they can from the BRM programs. Then we will be in a better position to identify the gaps.

[Kody Blois, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

I want to talk about AgriStability for a moment. Mr. Barlow referenced it, and of course it was his government that cut it from an 85% reference margin, but he talked about certain statistics. I want to confirm them with you.

AgriStability is currently at a 70% reference margin, which means that if farms were to go beyond that reference margin, that would trigger AgriStability if they're involved, and it would cover up to 70%, which would be almost 50% of the gross farm margins. Is that correct?

[Marie-Claude Bibeau, Liberal, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

Yes. It's not as simple as that, but yes.

[Kody Blois, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

In theory, though, a farm that might have hundreds of thousands of dollars' worth of income would certainly be entitled to close to 50% if it was enrolled in the program, if it met the threshold. Is that correct?

[Marie-Claude Bibeau, Liberal, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

I'm looking at my assistant deputy minister because you're calculating, maybe, a bit fast, but it's about 70% of 70% of eligible expenses.

[Kody Blois, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

I want to quickly take you to the carbon tax or the price on pollution, of course. We want to talk about that. Is that something that has come up within the Canadian Federation of Agriculture? Has it been the priority from the agriculture groups in the conversations that you've had?

[Marie-Claude Bibeau, Liberal, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

No, it's not the main issue that is being brought to me.

[Kody Blois, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

Mr. Barlow continues to ask you about this, but it's not the Department of Agriculture and Agri-Food that normally holds statistics on the price of pollution. Those are held by the either the Department of Finance or the Department of the Environment. Is that correct?