Agriculture Committee on April 20th, 2021

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

Okay.

To the grain dryers, if in fact you're given the choice between an exemption for propane and natural gas or a credit, what would your members prefer?

[Christian Overbeek]

If that question is aimed at me, I'd say I prefer an exemption rather than a credit; it's easier for accounting purposes.

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

Perfect.

Any of the other witnesses...?

Do I have five seconds left, Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

It's pretty much gone.

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

Thanks, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

Thanks, Mr. Lawrence.

Now we'll go to Monsieur Drouin for six minutes.

We are listening, Mr. Drouin.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank my colleagues because I know these speakers very well.

I'll begin with Mr. Overbeek.

You're a Quebec farmer. You know that Bill C-206 wouldn't apply to your region. Do you understand that?

[Christian Overbeek]

We understand, but events may occur in the coming months or years that cause Quebec to be included in Canadian fiscal policy. As you know, the political world is full of surprises.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Yes, but Quebec protects its powers. I can't imagine a scenario in which it would be included in that way.

Have you had a chance to speak with your counterparts in the United States, since their country is now a signatory to the Paris accord? Do you know what will happen to the farming community, especially in the northern United States, given that the climate there is quite similar to ours?

[Christian Overbeek]

I haven't had a chance to speak with my American or European colleagues yet. I'm sorry.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Thank you.

Mr. Annau, I heard part of your testimony. One issue you mentioned was that you would be seeking an amendment to propose an exemption for the heating and cooling of buildings. Is that correct?

[Frank Annau]

Was that directed towards the Canadian Federation of Agriculture?

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Yes.

[Frank Annau]

All right, I apologize.

That's correct. Yes, we would be seeking exemptions specifically for machinery used for the heating and cooling of buildings, used to help control temperatures for livestock during extreme weather.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Okay, and just to manage expectations, that's a discussion our committee's going to have, but we're not sure if we can do that, because Bill C-206 seeks to amend the eligible fuels and not necessarily create that exemption in another part of the law. That's a discussion we will have to have because that an amendment could be deemed inadmissible. Your point is taken, but I would like to manage expectations and tell you right away that this could be the case. It's not a partisan issue; it's simply a matter of procedure in the House, just so you know.

[Frank Annau]

It's much appreciated.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

My question for Mr. Overbeek is about how the U.S. has now signed, again, onto the Paris accord. Has the Canadian Federation of Agriculture started to speak with its U.S. counterparts with regard to what types of exemptions and programs are available for farmers, especially in the States up north where they have a similar climate to Canada, with regard to what that climate policy will look like?

[Frank Annau]

We have not started those conversations yet, but they're ones that we're obviously very eager to have. We're obviously looking, for example, at the potential impacts of carbon credit trading between California as well as Canada. Upcoming we'll be looking at the independent dialogue at the United Nations sustainable foods summit. We'll be looking to engage our U.S. counterparts at that point.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Yes, and I hope you do. Both of our economies are really well integrated, and if we could integrate our carbon policies, I think it would be an advantage for our farmers. It's would be advantage for our economy, and much simpler to understand.

[Frank Annau]

Absolutely.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

I know you guys will be providing a brief to us at some point in due course. Thanks for your testimony.

I'll move to Mr. Hodson. I understand the testimony that you gave. Obviously, the point of the carbon tax—and I support Mr. Lawrence's bill; it's a commitment I made to my farmers—and what we are trying to do is not to penalize farmers but to change the suppliers and essentially get rid of those carbon-intensive technologies.

I've heard you say there is no technology for grain drying. Has the Grain Growers started to look at potential other technologies, or to partner with universities, to see whether or not and how we can reduce that carbon footprint to zero so you don't have to pay the tax at all?

[Jonothan Hodson]

I'd maybe pass that on to Erin Gowriluk.

I can make a comment that, as producers, we're always listening and hearing. If there's something out there, we would hear about it. If there were a possibility to replace what we're doing, it would be something we would know about by now. At this point there is nothing tangible out there.

As far as collaborating down the road is concerned, that's something that I'm sure organizations will start to do. As we see this window closing and we have to do something, I'm sure that's what organizations will start to work towards.

[Erin Gowriluk, Executive Director, Grain Growers of Canada]

Just to add to Mr. Hodson's comments, I think that if there were a form of energy available as an alternative to natural gas or propane, farmers would be all over it. There's a significant cost, as Mr. Hodson indicated, associated with purchasing the natural gas and propane for drying grain. If we had a solar-powered grain dryer, I think you would see a lot of farmers adopting that technology in fairly short order, but that is not the case right now.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Yes.

Am I out of time?

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

Yes, that's pretty much it, Francis. Thanks.

Thanks, Ms. Gowriluk.

Go ahead for six minutes, Mr. Perron.