Evidence of meeting #33 for Agriculture and Agri-Food in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was lévêque.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Lianne Rood Conservative Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, ON
That's great.
Turning to some cattle-grazing practices, because you deal with a lot of dairy, some cattle-grazing practices include frequent rotational grazing and can regenerate grasslands and carbon capture in the soil.
Have you looked at the benefits to soil and grasslands from innovative cattle-grazing practices?
Director, Procurement, Raw and Packs, Danone Inc.
For sure, this practice will benefit from regenerative agricultural practices. Whether it's cattle or it's dairy cows, it all revolves around the same principle, like crop rotation. Obviously, in a pasture you don't till. There's no tillage required. Basically, the manure management is direct. However, some of these principles are also applicable.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Pat Finnigan
Thank you, Ms. Rood.
Thank you, Mr. Bertrand.
Mr. Drouin, you may go ahead. You have six minutes.
Liberal
Francis Drouin Liberal Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you to the witnesses for being here today.
My question is for Mr. Lévêque.
Just before the chair interrupted you, you were talking about having to pay for your certification. Is that correct?
Part Owner, Jardins de l'écoumène
Yes, that's correct.
We have to fork out $3,600 a year for certification. What it does is prove that our products are organic, and compliant with Canadian standards relating to ecosystem and soil health and the non-use of fertilizers and chemical pesticides.
Liberal
Francis Drouin Liberal Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON
Does Québec Vrai provide the certification, or is it tied to the new federal standard?
Part Owner, Jardins de l'écoumène
Québec Vrai complies with Canadian standards. British Columbia and Quebec already have their own certification systems, but when the federal standard was introduced, it covered all of Canada. Through Québec Vrai, our certifying body, we are certainly compliant with the Canadian standard.
Liberal
Francis Drouin Liberal Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON
Do you export your products or sell them locally?
Part Owner, Jardins de l'écoumène
Right now, we sell throughout Canada. We have an online store, as well as retailers in New Brunswick. We occasionally export products, mainly to Europe.
Liberal
Francis Drouin Liberal Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON
Basically, you're an organic farmer. Have you had any problems accessing the equipment you need for organic farming in Canada? I know you have about seven acres.
Part Owner, Jardins de l'écoumène
Actually, the equipment we need for the size of our farm is rather hard to get. We operate in a world of large-scale farming that uses big equipment. We rely a lot on countries in Europe and even Asia. We bring in the equipment from there because those countries view farming differently. Unfortunately, we have to import the equipment we need.
I should point out that small, human-scale farms—so those with two to seven hectares—are a growing phenomenon in Quebec. We are seeing more and more semi-automated equipment. Some of the work is still done manually, but we also have mechanical processes. At this scale, we can carefully follow the rules for preserving ecosystems.
Liberal
Francis Drouin Liberal Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON
I see. Thank you.
My next questions are for Mr. Bertrand.
First, it's nice to see you again. We've met before and had an opportunity to discuss regenerative agriculture.
Similar to Ms. Rood, I would like to talk about how you work with the farming community. At Danone, do you have your own farmer certification system, or do you deal exclusively with certain suppliers whose products are in line with your company's mission?
Director, Procurement, Raw and Packs, Danone Inc.
Generally, Danone's model throughout the world is based on contractual arrangements directly with farmers. We make every effort to be as transparent as possible, opening the books to really understand input costs and build them into our pricing.
Earlier I said that farmers have to be able to keep farming. We want to make sure farms remain viable to prevent a disruption in the supply chain. That is the number one principle; it is imperative. That is how we operate.
Liberal
Francis Drouin Liberal Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON
One of your recommendations is to collect more data. Does Danone collect data from its suppliers to make sure it is on track to meet its commitment of carbon neutrality by 2050, for example?
Director, Procurement, Raw and Packs, Danone Inc.
Yes, absolutely. We work with a consulting firm, which developed agriculture models to measure the real numbers out in the field. That is paramount; it's the first principle of ongoing improvement. Introducing those programs is consistent with the principle of ongoing improvement. In order to improve something, you have to understand it fully. Otherwise, you can't improve it. Having a full understanding of the situation is therefore essential in our approach. Taking measurements and making improvements is key. We make a change, we measure again, and then, we make another change. If it's not successful, we start over, and so on.
Liberal
Francis Drouin Liberal Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON
Do you see something of a trend emerging in the agricultural market? That question may come off as though you deal with the entire agricultural community. What I'm wondering, though, is whether you see a lot more farmers moving towards organic farming.
Director, Procurement, Raw and Packs, Danone Inc.
It's really up to the consumer. We are always looking to stay abreast of consumers' needs. For example, if they are choosing non-GMO or organic products, we make sure we can give them what they want.
I would say, yes, the trend is certainly growing.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Pat Finnigan
Thank you, Mr. Bertrand and Mr. Drouin.
We now go to Mr. Perron for six minutes.
Bloc
Yves Perron Bloc Berthier—Maskinongé, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Welcome to the witnesses. It's a pleasure to have you with us.
Mr. Bertrand, you talked about tools to measure impacts, saying that was one of the areas where the government could help. Measuring impacts is the biggest challenge.
In tangible terms, what would that look like? What can the government do to support the measurement process?
Director, Procurement, Raw and Packs, Danone Inc.
The tool we most commonly use is the Cool Farm Tool, which is available and already widely used in a number of countries. The reason we use it is to make sure we are comparing apples with apples when we look at agriculture in different countries.
I wouldn't say it's the most challenging problem, but it's the main one at the beginning of the process.
Bloc
Yves Perron Bloc Berthier—Maskinongé, QC
Sorry to interrupt you, but does that include characterizing soil microbiology at all? I would think so.
Director, Procurement, Raw and Packs, Danone Inc.
No, not automatically, but it could be required. Within a single province, some areas have better performance than others, so it may be necessary to take things a step further in terms of soil characterization.
Bloc
Yves Perron Bloc Berthier—Maskinongé, QC
Thank you.
Good afternoon, Mr. Lévêque. It's nice to see you again.
I wanted you to appear before the committee because I appreciated it when you said we already had the solutions. You were referring to our organic standards. You said that if Canada and Quebec wanted to improve their environmental performance, they should do more to promote organic farming. That's basically your message to us today.