Agriculture Committee on May 25th, 2021

[Neil Ellis, Liberal, Bay of Quinte, ON]

I have one last question.

I think this was maybe discussed in the last panel's testimony. Do you feel there's a problem with the laws and the way they are being enforced now, or is it that the courts aren't reading and interpreting the laws we have now?

[Rick Bergmann]

Well, really, what is the law? That's what we're talking about right now: Bill C-205. Maybe Mr. Roy would like to respond to that as well with a Quebec perspective, but we really need to have a law in place, which we're seeking.

[Neil Ellis, Liberal, Bay of Quinte, ON]

You don't think that right now the provincial and municipal laws are uniform enough to take effect with what is taking place now?

[Rick Bergmann]

Based on the evidence of what's transpired over the last two years with people walking into farms and putting animals at risk, no, not at all.

[Neil Ellis, Liberal, Bay of Quinte, ON]

Okay. Thank you.

That's all I have.

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

Thank you, Mr. Ellis.

Mr. Perron, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Duval, I'm not sure whether we understood each other correctly with regard to the last question.

The wording of the current bill refers to a person who knows that they pose a biosecurity risk. The people committing the offence may later say that they didn't know about the risk.

Do you think that the wording should be changed so that, regardless of the circumstances, a person who enters the premises of a farm for no reason can't claim ignorance?

[David Duval]

Yes, obviously.

The people in the agriculture sector and the hog production sector have worked very hard to make this clear. We've put up posters everywhere, and we've done extensive outreach in municipalities to explain hog farming. Even if someone were to claim ignorance, they would also need to be illiterate or to know nothing. It's as simple as that.

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Mr. Roy, what are your thoughts on this?

Do you think that the legislation should be simplified in this area?

[René Roy]

I think so.

As we've seen, some people use various excuses to get around the law. We must have legislation that doesn't allow people to circumvent it so easily, for example, by claiming ignorance.

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Thank you.

How do you respond to people who say that they won't be able to report abuse if this bill is passed?

[René Roy]

Given the number of structures that we have in place to ensure the quality of the animals that we raise and to look after their health and welfare, I have no problem defending our system. We're able to find cases that may be an issue.

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Thank you.

Dr. Vaillancourt, given your expertise, I want to hear your comments on this topic.

[Dr. Jean-Pierre Vaillancourt]

These people don't agree with the very idea of pork production. Even if the farming is done in the best possible conditions and by the book, they want to condemn it.

The witnesses from the pork industry who spoke to us today rightly said that they have ways to address the situation if an issue arises. For the people who want to break into a farm, it doesn't matter. They want to go much further. Their goal is to eliminate production. It isn't the same thing.

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

Thank you, Mr. Vaillancourt.

Thank you, Mr. Perron.

We will now go to Mr. MacGregor for two and a half minutes.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Thank you, Chair.

I have just one question for the Canadian Pork Council.

Regarding the provincial acts that were passed in both Alberta and Ontario, Alberta has the trespass statutes act and Ontario has the Security from Trespass and Protecting Food Safety Act. Were any of your members involved in consultations before the drafting of those laws? Do any of your members have specific feedback on how those individual statutes have worked as a deterrent thus far? Is there anything you can add that you haven't already stated to the committee?

[Rick Bergmann]

Yes. To my knowledge, I am unaware if our representatives from Alberta have had discussions like the pork organizations have. I would be surprised if they haven't, but I'm testifying that I'm not sure. Maybe René would have an answer from the Ontario perspective, the neighbouring province.

All I will say, Mr. MacGregor, is that the provincial pork organizations are quite engaged when things become activated and they're also quite alarmed when their farms are being broken into, so I would assume that there would be some correspondence.

[René Roy]

I do not have so much to add on the effort. I know that there has been some effort, but I don't know to what extent, so I cannot comment on that. However, I would stress the fact that the present bill would help protect not only the animals, but also the consumers. It's something that we have to remember: it would help all of the industry, all of the supply chain.

Yes, we can focus on trespassing, but we try to protect much more than that. It's our whole food supply chain, and it shouldn't be underestimated.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Thank you.

Mr. Chair, that's it for me.

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

Thank you, Mr. MacGregor.

This concludes our discussion with the second panel.

I thank, as an individual, Dr. Jean-Pierre Vaillancourt.

Dr. Vaillancourt, thank you for appearing before the committee.

I also want to thank Rick Bergmann and René Roy from the Canadian Pork Council.

Thank you so much for being here.

I also want to thank David Duval from Les Éleveurs de porcs du Québec.

Thank you to all of our committee members. Also, thank you to our staff and interpreters. They do a fantastic job. Sometimes we forget to mention them.

That will be all for this meeting. We shall see you at the next one.

The meeting is adjourned.