Agriculture Committee on June 15th, 2021

[Érik Tremblay, Special Advisor, Government Relations and International Trade, Dairy Farmers of Canada]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

To my knowledge, there has been no discussion on the matter since last year's symposium.

[Richard Lehoux, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

She decried the situation, but she took no concrete steps with regard to it.

However, it does have a significant impact on producers. Mr. Lampron or Mr. Wiens, do you have any examples of break-ins on dairy farms in Canada? What is the impact on mental health that we talked about earlier? I will also turn to the representative of the Éleveurs de volailles du Québec a little later.

Have your members given you any specific examples?

[Pierre Lampron]

I will start and Mr. Wiens can add to my answer if he wishes.

As I said in my presentation, we have established the proAction program, which is mandatory for all producers. It includes protocols and measures precisely in order to protect the animals. When unplanned incursions occur, so do the risks. Personally, I have not heard of any specific cases. I am not sure whether Mr. Wiens has.

I go back to what you said earlier. Incursions cause stress, and producers do not want people coming to harm their animals. Dairy production is not perhaps as fragile as poultry production, but it still is to a great extent. Our production practices are good and our animals are monitored extremely closely. So anything that can harm their well-being is significant.

[Richard Lehoux, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Lampron.

Mr. Wiens, do you want to add anything?

[David Wiens]

Yes, certainly. We had an experience here in Manitoba a few years ago where there was a barn fire and the farm lost a significant number of cows. They were under threat from people wanting to come onto the farm in protest.

As other dairy farmers, we went there and helped to stand in the way of protestors coming onto the farm. The farm family was already devastated by the loss of these animals, and then to have people intrude on that, I thought, was very insensitive. It puts farmers in a very, very difficult situation.

[Richard Lehoux, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Weins.

Mr. Leblanc, good afternoon again.

We realize that the poultry farming sector has some vulnerabilities. Your biosecurity standards are very stringent. Do you think the fines prescribed by Bill C‑205 are stiff enough to deter people from trespassing on farms?

[Pierre-Luc Leblanc]

Yes, exactly. If the bill passes, people will realize that there is a law and that they are committing an offence. It will get the message across. If the behaviour is covered by the law, if legislation is enacted, at least people will know that their behaviour has consequences. The fines are pretty high. People could face other penalties as well. My answer is yes, absolutely.

[Richard Lehoux, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

At the end of your opening statement, you talked about the anxiety and the stress these incidents cause farmers. Can you elaborate on that? It's important to understand that farmers are very worried about the consequences of these break-ins.

[Pierre-Luc Leblanc]

Yes, precisely. Actually, they are acts of trespassing. Poultry farmers in other provinces have been victims of these incidents as well. Farmers are left to fend for themselves when it happens. Protesters show up, and the farmer loses control of the situation. Things turn chaotic, and farmers witness their birds being mistreated or otherwise disturbed. They see the consequences on their operation. When it happens on some farms, every farmer has questions. They reach out to the Éleveurs de volailles du Québec in large numbers to ask what they should do if it happens to them. Not having legislation to deal with these incidents adds to their stress.

[Richard Lehoux, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

Do you think Bill C‑205 establishes a robust enough framework for police, whether it be the RCMP or Quebec provincial police, to respond quickly?

[Pierre-Luc Leblanc]

Yes, we think the bill could be passed as is because it establishes a framework; it introduces rules and parameters. It equates the act to trespassing. Treating the act as trespassing on private property sets a clear rule.

[Richard Lehoux, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Leblanc.

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

Thank you, Mr. Lehoux.

Mr. Neil Ellis, go ahead, for six minutes.

[Neil Ellis, Liberal, Bay of Quinte, ON]

Thank you, Chair. As I said before, we're going to miss you at this committee. Maybe we can talk you into changing your mind.

I would like to thank the witnesses for attending today.

First I'll throw a question to Mr. Leblanc.

Except for this bill, are there any other legal means to address break-ins or any illegal entry to farms? Are they working, and why?

[Pierre-Luc Leblanc]

From what we've observed, the measures that have been put forward, the legislation that has been passed, provide too much leeway. A pig farmer in my region was the victim of an incident and he had to fend for himself. The Sûreté du Québec did not know how to respond; officers did not know how to remove people from the premises, so it was complicated. I think the bill will send the right message and tell police, in fairly strict terms, how they should respond.

[Neil Ellis, Liberal, Bay of Quinte, ON]

We talked about threats, and I believe it was you, Mr. Leblanc, or one of the witnesses...but is trespassing one of the main threats for your industry, or are there other threats that you face, such as biosecurity?

[Pierre-Luc Leblanc]

That's a very good question.

Trespassing is becoming a threat. As I said earlier, trespassers on a turkey farm could cause the birds to huddle out of fear. It also puts biosecurity at risk because anyone who enters a farm without authorization and who does not follow the necessary biosecurity protocols could introduce other health problems, as I mentioned. For instance, those entering areas where animals are kept have to put on certain overgarments and change their footwear to make sure they are not introducing a disease such as laryngotracheitis or avian influenza.

The two risks you mentioned are major concerns for Quebec's poultry farmers.

[Pierre Lampron]

The same goes for dairy farmers. Any disease that could be introduced into the herd could cause serious damage. Biosecurity measures are in place, and we can see from COVID‑19 what happens when those measures aren't followed. Pathogens we aren't familiar with could be introduced. That is the last thing we want to happen.

[Neil Ellis, Liberal, Bay of Quinte, ON]

Thank you for that answer.

At the end of his testimony, Mr. Leblanc touched on mental health for farmers.

I'd like to ask this question to the dairy farmers, and this is coming, I guess, even from the Ontario Federation of Agriculture. Do you believe that Bill C-205 addresses critical issues such as mental health?

[David Wiens]

Well, it's a huge concern for us, obviously, because we feel the stress of people coming onto the farm. One of the things we see where some strengthening is needed is that there should be the requirement to have knowledge of what they're doing, or recklessness.... Those things should be removed, because to plead ignorance is unacceptable. Because of the damage it causes, there is huge stress on farms. We feel extremely vulnerable. To have people come onto the farm and simply claim ignorance and help to destroy the animals on the farm is simply unacceptable.

[Neil Ellis, Liberal, Bay of Quinte, ON]

Thank you for your answer.

I guess this could go to whoever wants to weigh in on this.

Farmers' concerns have prompted provincial governments in Ontario, Alberta, Saskatchewan and Manitoba to pursue more stringent measures to protect farm owners and producers, including by increasing trespassing fines. Agriculture is an area of shared jurisdiction between Canada and its provincial partners.

Ontario pork producers were mentioned. In Ontario, with the enactment of Bill 156, the Security from Trespass and Protecting Food Safety Act of 2020, pork producers, as well as others in the agri-food sector, now have protection. Has either of you contacted our provincial counterparts and spoken to a bill that might be similar to what other provinces are now enacting?

I don't know who wants to start with that one.

[David Wiens]

Certainly, there has been some work done in the provinces. For instance, I am from Manitoba and I spoke on a similar bill there.

Yes, we have come from a point where landowners were expected to address trespassing on their own, yet at the same time farmers were actually held liable for anything that might happen to anyone who trespassed. Those kinds of laws have been very difficult, and now they are being reconsidered.

My concern in all of this is that if we don't have some kind of a national framework around this, there are going to be varying degrees of legislation on this in different provinces, and that allows people who want to target farms to pick the jurisdictions where there are the least consequences for their actions. That is a huge concern.

[Neil Ellis, Liberal, Bay of Quinte, ON]

Mr. Leblanc, did you want to touch on that question?

[Pierre-Luc Leblanc]

Yes. We are already working extensively with the provincial government to establish biosecurity standards to protect food safety and animal welfare. The work has already started, in conjunction with Quebec's ministry of agriculture, fisheries and food, to ensure across-the-board compliance with animal welfare rules.

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

Thank you, Mr. Ellis and Monsieur Leblanc.

Now we will go to Monsieur Perron for six minutes.

Go ahead, Mr. Perron.