Agriculture Committee on Dec. 1st, 2020

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

As for marketing, you turn all that over to the producers. Is my understanding correct?

[Fernande Ouellet]

That's correct. Most of them don't want to be someone else's responsibility in any case. They want to keep that direct connection with their clientele, and we can't deprive them of it. It's one of their great strengths.

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

How many abattoir facilities of this kind would we need to support the Quebec or Canadian market?

[Fernande Ouellet]

I think you have to consider a relatively even distribution of a dozen facilities in Quebec.

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

Thank you, Ms. Ouellet and Mr. Perron.

Mr. MacGregor, go ahead for six minutes.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Madame Ouellet, I'll continue with you. I'm very intrigued by the projects that you've brought to the attention of the committee, and I'll tell you why.

I have a small farming property. We raise chickens. My riding is here on Vancouver Island, and we have had the same struggles in trying to find processing capacity. We're very lucky here in the Cowichan valley, because we do have Island Farmhouse Poultry. It has expanded its operations, but it's almost like when you expand a highway: More cars come. It has actually had more customers come as a result of its expansion. Last year, we were forced to take an hour and a half drive with our chickens to find slaughtering capacity.

Your testimony also closely parallels what we heard from Judy Stafford of Cowichan Green Community at a previous committee meeting. She's looking for those kinds of funds to establish a commercial kitchen.

I think what you're proposing here is absolutely applicable to many rural areas in Canada. That's why I'm very intrigued about it.

You've already answered a lot of the questions, so could you give us a ballpark figure of the cost involved in converting one of those sea containers or a mobile trailer to get it up to the standards that are necessary for it to be approved as a licensed facility?

[Fernande Ouellet]

In our project, we were surprised not to see any major difference in facility costs between federally certified facilities and others certified at the provincial level. It was surprising because we had expected it to cost more.

As to requirements, when you build facilities seeking federal government approval from the outset, you have to bear roughly the same costs as if you wanted certification issued based on hazard analysis critical control point, or HACCP, and to be subject to provincial inspection. That's not really where you see the difference.

What's interesting—and what we've understood—is that the major challenge that small provincial abattoirs face in adapting and moving up to the next level, federal inspection, stems from the fact that they're already operating in infrastructure that requires adaptations and that their practices also have to be adapted. That step is thus much steeper than if you were starting by seeking federal certification. We think the best way is to start by requesting federal approval. Then you can generate economies of scale.

I think our project is too costly right now compared to what it might cost once we've met all the technical challenges. When we can operate in a network, we'll be able to build not one but 20 abattoirs, which would be scattered across the country. Then we'll be able to achieve economies of scale and reduce both the problem and the costs of installation.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

With regard to those costs and the availability of federal funding programs as they currently exist, one that comes to mind is the local food infrastructure fund. Do you have any feedback on that or on any improvements we can make to it? I'm looking for something concrete that we as a committee could include in our report when we table it in the House of Commons.

[Fernande Ouellet]

Thank you for asking that question because this is an important point.

When you receive subsidies, you can't exceed the ratios. By that I mean the subsidy amounts received relative to the total cost of the project. The problem is that you have to put up the rest of the funds.

If you receive federal government assistance, it should be considered non-refundable start-up financing. Then you should be able to apply for subsidies without the nature of that start-up financing being taken into consideration. Otherwise you're in trouble because you've exceeded the ratios.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Great. Thank you so much.

Mr. Greuel, you covered a lot of ground in your opening statement and during questions. In our previous panel there was some talk about the advisory services provided to start-ups. I know that PIC is involved in that, because you're helping a company realize its big idea into a marketable idea.

Can you talk a little bit about the advisory services that are so important to companies in helping them get along that path? Is there anything specifically that the federal government can assist with in providing those advisory services to get that idea to market?

[William Greuel]

It's really critical, because it's the top of the innovation pipeline. For entrepreneurs to have methods of bringing commercial ideas to market is really critical as companies grow in scale.

Dr. Charlebois touched on the concept of a food tech incubator, and I will hit on it again. I believe it is really critical for Canada. We have a number of accelerators and incubators that would be in what we would call the “ag tech” space. They are probably underserved, but there are places for organizations that are in IoT and information technology and machine learning. There is not a lot of opportunity in Canada for food tech innovation and ingredient tech innovation. I think that's a really important role for Canada to play, especially when we compare ourselves with other—what I would call “innovative”—food jurisdictions globally.

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

Thank you, Mr. Greuel and Mr. MacGregor.

Unfortunately, that's all the time we have. This was very interesting. We'd like to hear more. If you have anything, please submit it to our committee and we'll make sure it's included.

Madam Ouellet and Mr. Greuel, thank you for being with us this afternoon.

We'll suspend and then come back for our business portion.

Thank you.

[Proceedings continue in camera]