Evidence of meeting #114 for Agriculture and Agri-Food in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was need.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Dean and Professor, College of Agriculture and Bioresources, University of Saskatchewan
I think that innovation research will still need to continue, and it will need to be a top priority.
It would become disincentivized insofar as it might limit our tool kit, right? The hope would be that it wouldn't happen, and that, if it did, there would be that opportunity for us to pivot and work elsewhere, but universities tend to pursue those paths. That's one of the advantages of university research as opposed to work that's happening solely within an industry context.
Conservative
Lianne Rood Conservative Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, ON
Thank you so much.
I'm going to cede my time to Mr. Steinley.
Conservative
Warren Steinley Conservative Regina—Lewvan, SK
Thank you very much.
I have a few quick questions to ask in the time I have.
Ms. Bedard-Haughn, do you know how many soil types there are in Saskatchewan, let alone Canada?
Dean and Professor, College of Agriculture and Bioresources, University of Saskatchewan
It depends how you define soil type.
As a soil scientist, I could spend hours going through that. Very broadly, even within our one dominant soil type that we have, there's a whole lot of variability in the soil texture and the amount of organic matter that's associated with it. Each of those would affect how those soils function or behave in terms of carbon intensity.
Conservative
Warren Steinley Conservative Regina—Lewvan, SK
As you well know, different soil types also require different fertilizer.
Dean and Professor, College of Agriculture and Bioresources, University of Saskatchewan
That's a hundred per cent true.
Conservative
Warren Steinley Conservative Regina—Lewvan, SK
That's why it's very hard to compare them.
One question and concern that I have about some of this is that our producers in Canada and western Canada specifically are still trying to understand what kind of credit they will get and how we're going to give them the credit for the sequestration part. Everyone talks about the emissions part but not the sequestration part. I feel that's a big part of this conversation that we're missing.
Do you have any comments on how we can give the credit to our producers that they deserve? I've talked about it in committee many times, the innovations, zero till, crop rotation and all the good things we've done for which our producers just continue to not get credit from this government.
Dean and Professor, College of Agriculture and Bioresources, University of Saskatchewan
Referring back to the work that looked at the carbon intensity of some of the commodities that we're producing in Saskatchewan, the work done by the Global Institute of Food Security comparing that to other parts of the world did take into account the sequestration piece. That's part of what gives it such an advantage, and when I'm talking about the importance, for example, of measurement reporting and verification, that's where we need to be accounting for that.
The other piece we need to be talking about is that, when we're talking about emissions as part of this, we need to recognize that part of what our producers are doing, even those early adopters, is avoiding further emissions by continuing to do those practices, because, if they were to revert to more intensive tillage, for example, we would be right back where we were in the 1940s and 1950s with large amounts of emissions associated with agriculture that we've managed to avert in the years since.
Conservative
Warren Steinley Conservative Regina—Lewvan, SK
I have one more quick comment. We should look at some of the emissions per tonnage, too, for what you're producing as well. I think that's a conversation that also needs to be had in this discussion.
Dean and Professor, College of Agriculture and Bioresources, University of Saskatchewan
That's in that GIFS study as well.
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative John Barlow
Thanks, Mr. Steinley.
We go now to Ms. Taylor Roy for five minutes, please.
October 24th, 2024 / 9:10 a.m.
Liberal
Leah Taylor Roy Liberal Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON
Thank you, Chair.
Thank you to Ms. Bedard-Haughn and Ms. Tothova for being here.
Your testimony was very interesting and very insightful. It really highlights the complexity of reducing carbon emissions and measuring that, especially in the context of global trade.
My colleague across the way has just talked about how difficult it is to really estimate the amount of net emissions. We know hard things are hard, and that's why we have brilliant people like yourselves both looking at this because it's something we need to do.
You mentioned that Canada needs to take a leadership role in this. Do you feel that undertaking a study such as this and starting to look at it now, in advance of the imposition of CBAMs by our trading partners, is important? If so, why?
Perhaps we can start with you, Ms. Bedard-Haughn.
Dean and Professor, College of Agriculture and Bioresources, University of Saskatchewan
As much as I said at the outset that thank goodness we're not there yet, I'm also grateful that we are starting the conversation now for that very reason. We can acknowledge the question that we were asked on what those three things are that we need to be looking at now. Those three things are not things that we can get done by the end of 2024. These are big asks.
By making this a priority—a research priority, a government priority—and making sure we have our heads around it, we're going to be in a much stronger position to set the stage for others if we end up in this space down the road.
Liberal
Leah Taylor Roy Liberal Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON
That's great. Thank you.
Ms. Tothova, do you also have a comment on that?
Senior Economist, Markets and Trade Division, Social and Economic Development Work Stream, FAO, Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations
Yes, I'm very much in agreement with that.
If you look at the CBAM-related measures elsewhere, they are looking really at iron, steel, cement and fertilizers that are in very energy-intensive sectors. Now, if we look at agriculture, there is not as much discussion. There is some discussion about extending the border adjustment measures to agriculture.
You are getting this, let's say, early start to think about it. I would like to compliment, indeed, the committee that you have embarked on this study at this point.
Liberal
Leah Taylor Roy Liberal Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON
Thank you very much.
We talked about the complexity and the administrative burden of measuring and accounting for specific carbon footprints. We do want to ensure, in any measurement of the net ecosystem, as you were talking about, that we would be measuring not only the sequestration but also the emissions and any changes. Obviously, on a per tonne basis, all of that would be part of it.
Even with that, it seems very complex to do it farm by farm and product by product. Has there been any discussion about other ways that we can incentivize farmers to adopt these practices and also ensure that our farmers who have better sustainable practices are benefiting in the global market without doing it on a product and farm basis?
Answer briefly, if you can, because I know my time is running out. Are there other ways to do this?
Dean and Professor, College of Agriculture and Bioresources, University of Saskatchewan
This is the advantage of our starting early. There are tools that we have. If I were to use the example of soil measurement, we can combine local measurements with machine learning tools. Basically, we're building up our tool kit and our ability to do more of that work without farm by farm measurements.
We need to build up that data set to empower us to use those other tools down the road. That's part of the innovation space. Yes, there's the innovation in developing new varieties and things like that. The other innovation is actually in the measurement space, and how we can combine remote sensing and machine learning technologies with a smaller number of local measurements to move forward in this space.
Liberal
Leah Taylor Roy Liberal Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON
That's fantastic.
Ms. Tothova, do you have anything to add?
Senior Economist, Markets and Trade Division, Social and Economic Development Work Stream, FAO, Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations
I'm very much in agreement with that.
Liberal
Liberal
Leah Taylor Roy Liberal Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON
I'm also wondering about the concept that was raised with regard to pickles, as an example. I was going to talk about the pickles as well.
We also have to look at ways that we can incentivize the whole chain to be more carbon neutral, including transportation. I would hope that some of this would actually encourage more food processing in Canada because of the emissions component of shipping things out and shipping things back. If that is actually incorporated into these measurements, we may see more incentives and more investment in Canada for food processing.
Do you agree? How would you see our doing that?
Dean and Professor, College of Agriculture and Bioresources, University of Saskatchewan
I am nodding vigorously here. Yes, I absolutely agree that it's an essential piece. It needs to look at incentivizing value-added processing closer to the source while also looking at ways to improve our transportation pathways.
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative John Barlow
Thanks, Ms. Taylor Roy.
Monsieur Perron, you have two and a half minutes, please.