Agriculture Committee on Nov. 7th, 2024

[Wade Sobkowich]

Today, extended interswitching applies in Alberta, Saskatchewan and Manitoba. It's still 30 kilometres for the rest of the country.

The reason we're saying 500 kilometres is that there are some elevators and farmers in those areas who won't have access to an elevator that has a competitive alternative. Right now, 92% of elevators have access under 160 kilometres. That doesn't take into account the grain-growing regions in B.C, so those elevators are at a competitive disadvantage. The Carrot River region in Saskatchewan is also at a competitive disadvantage. In order to capture them, 500 kilometres would be needed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

Thank you.

Mr. Boulerice, you now have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Alexandre Boulerice, NDP, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to come back to the cost of the renovations, the updates to level crossings.

If I understand correctly, the financial assistance program ran dry several months ago. So we are looking at three possibilities: the government could put money into the program; a regulatory exemption could be created—you would not be required to do it; or the cost could be covered by the railway company.

Which of those three options do you prefer? Do you want all three?

[Stéphanie Levasseur]

I imagine that the option you prefer is for the railway company to pay.

[Alexandre Boulerice, NDP, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

You said it.

[Stéphanie Levasseur]

In fact, the program is not solely for the benefit of agricultural producers; it is also for the benefit of municipalities and society as a whole. It is an important program. I think there will always be upgrading or work to be done on these level crossings, whether they are public or private. It is therefore important that there be a support program, which is why we are asking that it be restored.

It is probably too late for this to be done by the end of the month, to meet the November 28 deadline. That is why we are also asking for regulatory exemptions, so something can be done quickly and at lower cost for producers, in order to meet this requirement before the end of the month. The regulatory exemptions are also important.

In my opinion, we have to evaluate or analyze the difference in risk between level crossings in urban situations, in municipalities or on public roads, and level crossings in private areas where there is very little or no access to the public, which are seldom used.

I think it is possible to balance it all and arrange it so that the regulatory provision is not the same everywhere, since the risk is not the same everywhere.

[Alexandre Boulerice, NDP, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

Mr. Spoelstra, do you want to add a comment?

[Drew Spoelstra]

The first thing is that we want to make sure these crossings aren't closed and pulled out of such that farmers are unable to use them. That, I think, is a quick fix. Maybe before the end of this month we can issue that directive.

Following up on that, we want to make sure that the railways' responsibility is enforced. We want to make sure that these long-standing agreements are honoured. Maybe we can look at legislative amendments to prevent the shifting of these costs from the railways to farmers and others.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

Thank you very much.

Colleagues, we're now going into the third round. There will be five minutes for the Conservatives and five minutes for the Liberals. Then we will still have about 15 minutes. I'll do a quick little round of two or three minutes for each party, just to try to round us up to 10. I have a few questions as well. I always get jealous; you guys get to engage.

It looks like Mr. Steinley is ready to rock and roll.

It's over to you for five minutes.

[Warren Steinley, Conservative, Regina—Lewvan, SK]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Youzwa, is there any way to get your product to market other than using railways?

[Terry Youzwa]

That's the challenge. We don't have a Mississippi River like the one running through the U.S., which the army pays to dredge. That is absolutely a very valid question. I don't think we're going to build new railways across the country. We need to find innovative ways to introduce competition.

We also have to remember who the customer is. Usually the party who pays the bill is the customer. We often feel it's the other way around with the way we're being treated.

[Warren Steinley, Conservative, Regina—Lewvan, SK]

I know that our beautiful province is vast, but for some of the other members on the committee, could you tell us how far your commodities have to travel to get to port? I don't think some of my colleagues on the committee realize how vast the distance is in Saskatchewan.

Carrot River is a beautiful place with good fishing—I saw that you caught a beautiful walleye there—but how far do your commodities have to travel?

[Terry Youzwa]

Thanks. I'm only about 20 miles from Carrot River, where we're farming. I do enjoy walleye fishing.

We're talking about 4,000 kilometres. Let's also remember the vastness of the production size. Typical farmers in the west export 80% to 90% of what we produce. I think those numbers are substantially smaller in Ontario and Quebec, where so much more of it finds a domestic home. That is a big thing. For us it's 4,000 kilometres to get to Vancouver. It's a very real cost for us.

[Warren Steinley, Conservative, Regina—Lewvan, SK]

When you put it into perspective—500 kilometres compared with 4,000 kilometres—it makes it seem a lot more reasonable...maybe some people would realize how big those distances are.

Are you aware of the APAS report that came out, probably about five months ago, on how much Saskatchewan producers are paying the railways in carbon tax? I recently heard my Liberal colleague talk about how big of a hit $600,000 would be to farmers. Do you know how much farmers paid just to the railways in carbon tax last year and how much they're expected to pay this year?

[Terry Youzwa]

I can't give you that number off the top of my head. You probably know the answer.

[Warren Steinley, Conservative, Regina—Lewvan, SK]

Yes, I can give it to you, Terry. Last year, the carbon tax charge for Saskatchewan farmers was $36 million. This year, it's expected to be $57 million. That's a $21-million increase. The interesting part is that this fee isn't hidden. This fee is a surcharge that the railways pay and have on their bill to the farmers.

If they would get this money back in their pockets, how much could farmers use the extra $57 million being taken just because of the NDP-Liberal carbon tax?

[Terry Youzwa]

All of these taxes are just increases to our cost of production. They lead to diminished returns. Eventually, we're not viable. We have the most sustainable crops out there. It's very challenging.

Paying a carbon tax is certainly not a way to effectively improve the environment. It's just not working. Some other country will fill the gap when we're talking about energy reduction. It's just raising our costs. It's not improving our bottom lines, and it's not preparing us for the future. We have other places to spend our capital.

[Warren Steinley, Conservative, Regina—Lewvan, SK]

I assume that you're trying to be as fuel efficient as possible on your farm. How much do you guys farm right now?

[Terry Youzwa]

Our farm is 3,500 acres. We moved to direct seeding and GPS precision planting. We have to find ways to be more productive, and we have. We've contributed.

Agriculture and forests are a sink. They're sequestering carbon, and we're not getting paid for it. It's very frustrating dealing with this environment when your contributions are not being adequately recognized.

[Warren Steinley, Conservative, Regina—Lewvan, SK]

That was my final question. You kind of led me there.

How much have you gotten back in carbon rebates over the last couple of years? There seems to be some confusion. Some say people are getting more back in rebates than they're paying. Could you lay out where we are with a 3,500-acre family farm? How much have you gotten back in rebates?

[Terry Youzwa]

The farm doesn't get carbon rebates. The individual gets carbon rebates. Those costs are in the price you pay for the product, and they're not factored into those rebates. That's another very frustrating file.

I'm obviously not a fan of the carbon tax. It just increases costs and doesn't improve the environment.

[Warren Steinley, Conservative, Regina—Lewvan, SK]

Thank you very much. I appreciate it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

There is one thing I want to say. Mr. Youzwa, did you say Nipawin is where you are? That's the home of the Hawks; is that right?

[Terry Youzwa]

Yes. The home of the Hawks is not having a good year.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

No? Okay.

Ms. Murray, it's over to you for up to five minutes.