Agriculture Committee on May 9th, 2022

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

Thanks.

Following up on the previous discussion, Mr. Gregorich, I think you answered Mr. Falk's line of questioning by saying that yes, we want more carbon in the soil. To follow up on that, what is the potential? How much more carbon can we store in Canada's soils? Do we have any idea of what the potential is?

[Dr. Ed Gregorich]

I can't give you the exact number. The goal is always to increase. It's first of all to maintain, and then to increase the carbon. Even giving you a number wouldn't really help answer your question. The point is that we're always trying to increase that carbon level to maximize the amount that can be stored. The soil's potential for storage is huge. It's a very large carbon sink.

Someone here mentioned oceans being large, but the amount of carbon in soil is three times that in the atmosphere. It's a huge pool. Not all of that is being farmed, but the part that's being farmed is managed in this way to put more residue, more carbon, into the soil, so as a—

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

I appreciate the response.

Mr. Saindon, to go back to you, we had Professor MacRae here with us last week. He identified about 10 different barriers that our farmers experience when trying to adopt some of the more sustainable practices and technologies, some of which we've talked about today.

He mentioned financial cost being one of them, as well as lack of advisory support, inconsistencies with family tradition, reputational impact and the difficulty to get information, equipment and input, all as significant parts of the equation. Do you see, Mr. Saindon, any of these barriers in your interactions with the industry? What are we doing to address those challenges so that we can increase the uptake of these practices?

[Dr. Gilles Saindon]

What I would like to say on this, I think, is that it's an interesting list, a good list, and I am not necessarily disputing the list that you've provided, but I'd like to focus on information sharing. I think it's the heart of our activities in the living labs approach. It is to share at both the conception level of our activities and also when we generate the results and we broadcast the results back to the community.

I think it's that sharing of information that is critical and that's core and central to a lot of our activities that we do with industry under the science cluster, the science projects, the living labs and you name it. I think that's something that is important—

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Saindon. I appreciate that. I'm sorry to cut you off. I'm going to try to squeeze in one more question.

In terms of CAP—and I know that it's going to be renegotiated—has there been any discussion about how sustainability protocols could be built in when dealing with provinces and territories? Is there going to be any funding for what we call “transition advisory services” that could help increase the information sharing and provide some advice and support to farmers who want to move further down the line to more agro-ecological practices?

Thanks.

[Dr. Gilles Saindon]

Unfortunately, I don't have that information with me. In fact, it's part of the discussion that is led by some other officials in our department and is part of their activities in their work with the provincial government. Perhaps that's part of the negotiation, but I'm not privy to these discussions.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

I have a last question.

How can we incentivize a more rapid uptake? What mechanisms can we implement from a policy perspective that might increase the uptake of some of the more sustainable practices that I think you're doing lots of research on?

[Dr. Gilles Saindon]

Obviously, we want to work on the best management practices that we codevelop with the sector, with the partners, with the players and with the farmers. When they work with us on their farm at that level, that's probably the best recipe for success in demonstrating that it's working and in spreading the word among producers.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

Thank you, Mr. Turnbull and Mr. Saindon.

Mr. Perron, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Earlier, we talked about seed research, breeding, and so on. I'd like to know how much research and development that entails.

How long does it take to test and measure the impact of genetic modifications over the medium to long term?

Why is it important that your department be responsible for that?

I don't know who will be best suited to answer my question.

[Dr. Gilles Saindon]

I can give it a try.

Do you want to know how long it takes to produce seeds or do you want to know how long it takes to decide—

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

I wonder how long all that takes, including the development of validation protocols and testing.

[Dr. Gilles Saindon]

I would roughly estimate that the breeding cycle takes about 10 to 12 years. If biotechnology is involved, that can shorten the cycle. The breeding process can be done faster, but it never takes less than 6 to 8 years. However, field evaluation in the agricultural setting still takes about 4 to 6 years. That doesn't vary much.

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

In your opinion, would it be important to enact regulations to guide the process or would it be better to let the industry manage these things?

[Dr. Gilles Saindon]

Actually, the regulatory component assesses the safety of genetic material released into the environment. Here in Canada, we have regulations in place for genetically modified organisms.

At the moment, we're looking at how to regulate products made from clustered regularly interspaced short palindromic repeats, or CRISPRs. We're discussing that right now.

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Can you tell us about the importance of maintaining good farming practices over the long term? Of course, I'm not expecting a political answer.

For example, if a producer gets funding to plant trees and cuts them down after five years, I wonder what the agri-environmental gains will be.

[Dr. Gilles Saindon]

It's indeed important to make sure that the action we take is sustainable, when we plant trees and install windbreaks, for example. When we create permanent grasslands, it's important not to plow the fields, otherwise it won't help. Once the fields are plowed again, annual plants move in and the same cycle starts over as far as greenhouse gas emissions go.

The sustainability of these new approaches is paramount.

Perhaps my colleagues could provide further details on this.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

Thank you, Mr. Saindon and Mr. Perron.

Your time is up.

Mr. MacGregor, we'll go over to you.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I only have one question, maybe for Dr. Gregorich, because he's had the most interventions on carbon soil sequestration.

We've had testimony here about agroforestry being one of the most efficient practices for carbon sequestration. I made mention earlier of France as a leading example worldwide, with an ambitious plan to convert many acres of cropland into land that supports agroforestry. In Canada, of course, the federal government, in a different department, has the two billion trees initiative.

Dr. Gregorich, I'm wondering, just to wrap things up, if you have any further comments to add on agroforestry, in particular on which crop species would be the best, and maybe on how AAFC can tie in with the government's committed goal of two billion trees to help our agricultural sector?

[Dr. Ed Gregorich]

Thanks for the question.

Planting trees is a broad topic. It's everything from replenishing and putting in shelter belts to riparian trees, which was mentioned before, to silvopasture, which is putting trees in pastures, and then intercropping, which you were referring to in France. They're encouraging that.

I'm not aware if there's any research being done right now on the specific varieties of crops and the interaction between the crops and the trees. I don't think there is in Canada, but the point is that with the whole idea of putting trees on farms, there's a whole wide range of different management practices in that regard. However, that is important, and it is being considered by the department.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

I'll wrap up by thanking all of our witnesses for joining our committee today.

That's it for me, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

You stole the words from my mouth, Mr. MacGregor.

Thank you, colleagues. Thank you to all the witnesses for your research work in the field. We appreciate what you do and we appreciate your testimony here today. I know it was very helpful for folks.

We'll call it a day. Thank you to our translators. Thank you to our clerk, who is filling in for Ms. Harrison. We're wishing her well in her recovery.

We'll wrap it up there. Thanks, everyone.

The meeting is adjourned.