Agriculture Committee on May 9th, 2022

[Dave Epp, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Leamington, ON]

Thank you.

Related to this whole area, there's discussion particularly around product registrations, and funding has been allocated to add a layer of oversight to the pest management regulatory authority dealing with citizen science. We have access to tremendous amounts of science right here on this call.

Can you define citizen science for me and its potential impact on the registration process?

[Dr. Gilles Saindon]

Citizen science occurs when we have a science project that involves the public providing some data. It's usually done in a structured way. The scientist will put the general call out there to report insects, damage or new weeds; then the public will provide some of that information to scientists through some kind of an organized channel, and then there is follow-up. It's a group of citizens who help us gather the evidence needed.

It's early to tell how this can help. We don't have a particular component to that right now. You have referred to the public oversight of this Health Canada initiative. I think they are also engaged in a renewal of their own approach. I think they received some funding to look into this, and it's at an early stage. I think one of the components to that was the announcement of having an external panel that will help guide the PMRA decision-making. I don't have much more information at this point in time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

Thank you, Mr. Epp.

Thank you, Mr. Saindon.

Mrs. Valdez, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Rechie Valdez, Liberal, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses for joining us today.

This is a bit of a whole new world, so I do appreciate all of the expertise that is on the call today. I'm going to do my best to direct the questions accordingly.

I'll start off with Dr. Gregorich.

During these past few summers, the Prairies and western Canada have experienced extreme weather, as we all know, with floods and droughts. As temperatures continue to rise, what impacts do extreme weather events have on soil health and ultimately our farmlands?

[Dr. Ed Gregorich]

Those impacts can take the form of the effect on the crop itself. In terms of soil organic matter, it depends on the crop, on the amount of biomass and the amount of material that goes into the soil after they've harvested. If there's a very severe drought and a reduction in the yields, that's a good indicator that the amount of organic matter going into the soil is going to be reduced quite a bit. That in itself is a problem.

Increased variability is also a problem, such as the high rainfall that's happening in Manitoba right now. It's difficult for the farmers to get on the field to plant the crop, or there's delayed seeding, and that again affects the crop.

It's not just drought. Any sort of extreme weather event hampers productivity. Once you start hampering the productivity of the crop and the amount of material that goes in, that affects organic matter levels and all of the organic part of the soil.

[Rechie Valdez, Liberal, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

Thank you.

What types of measures must be taken to mitigate and respond to the threats, Dr. Gregorich?

[Dr. Ed Gregorich]

It's taking a long-term view of what's going on, and it's not a quick-fix solution when you're talking about this sort of problem. One of the things that we're advocating that helps is increasing soil organic matter, and that takes a long period of time. When you increase the soil organic matter, then it has the ability to absorb more water, and that then weathers that particular drought period. That helps maintain soil structure and so forth.

That one-year period of that loss of the dynamics of the system requires that it has to be a long-term perspective, not a short-term year-to-year perspective. Although it's very difficult to see what happens after a drought like what we've experienced, a long-term view in this sort of thing is needed for building up the soil organic matter.

[Rechie Valdez, Liberal, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

Dr. Comeau or Dr. Nyiraneza, do you want to add to that?

[Dr. Louis-Pierre Comeau]

If I could, Mr. Chair, I'll quickly mention that there's a wide range of things that are measured after those droughts by a wide range of scientists here at AAFC. Many of them include soil health and biological parameters, as was mentioned previously. There are many aspects of those soil properties that we are currently measuring with a large group of scientists. There are more than 200 scientists doing those kinds of wide analyses, so I could not explain all of them one by one.

[Rechie Valdez, Liberal, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

Thank you. You've given enough context. I appreciate that.

Dr. St. Luce or Dr. Lemke, what further steps could agriculture policy and risk management take to address climate risk and readiness?

[Dr. Reynald Lemke]

Really, this to me, I think, is a policy question, and I don't believe I'm equipped to answer that.

[Rechie Valdez, Liberal, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

I can pass the question over to Dr. Saindon, if that's more appropriate.

[Dr. Gilles Saindon]

I think there are a range of activities that we can do in terms of some of the research that is underpinning these actions. I would say that's usually where we and our colleagues on the Prairies focus. That's what they would focus on, the science underpinning these actions.

I don't have a whole lot more context to provide.

[Rechie Valdez, Liberal, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

That's no problem.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

Thank you, Ms. Valdez.

Mr. Perron, you now have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Dr. Comeau, how does one go about determining what's effective and what's not? On the one hand, we have to recognize that grassland is important, and on the other, we're told that animals emit a lot of gas. We also need to consider 3‑NOP.

What are your observations on this subject?

[Dr. Louis-Pierre Comeau]

Thank you for the question.

I will try to respond in English so my colleagues can jump in if I miss something.

What is important to keep in mind is the system in its natural state. In some places like in the Prairies, there were natural prairies, with bison. In those cases, it's important to keep them as close to natural as possible. If there were bison, then it's just a cycle to put cattle on them or to use grass harvesting, but in other ecosystems, if we try to convert an ecosystem that was maybe a deciduous forest into grassland, then, where there is a land use change, we might have negative effects. It all depends on what was there originally and how we can continue to produce as much as possible without causing much disturbance in the long run.

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Thank you very much.

Have you done any studies on the relationship between grazing input and input related to livestock operations? Besides 3‑NOP, are there any other ways to reduce livestock gas emissions?

[Dr. Louis-Pierre Comeau]

A lot of studies are done locally, but few are done Canada-wide.

However, many studies show that measured grazing that's well done can increase the amount of carbon sequestered in the soil.

I will turn it over to Dr. Gregorich, who can elaborate on this.

[Dr. Ed Gregorich]

Yes, grazing does increase it, as does anything that promotes the growth of the crop, and that happens when you have grazing animals returning the residue back to the soil, which helps maintain high soil organic matter levels.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

Thank you very much.

Mr. MacGregor, you now have the floor.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Thank you, Chair.

The theme of my question is going to be international collaboration.

During the course of this study, we heard reference to countries like Australia that are engaged in a national soil strategy. One of our witnesses, Mr. Eric Toensmeier, was talking about France, which in the next couple of decades has a national commitment to convert 1.5 million acres of cropland to agroforestry.

Our committee is aware that this year in Glasgow there is going to be the world congress of soil science, where several thousand of the world's top soil scientists are going to come together, and I'm sure soil health and how we can best combat climate change are going to be major themes.

From AAFC's perspective, could you inform the committee on what your collaboration with international partners is like? Are there any countries in particular that your department looks to as places that some of this cutting-edge research is being developed? Can we take advantage of that open-source knowledge to best inform our practices and policies here in Canada?

[Dr. Gilles Saindon]

Mr. Chair, I can probably take this question.

We collaborate extensively with a number of countries on the way we collect information about climate change, the way the measurements are done and all of that. Some of our largest contributions or activities are probably with the United States, our neighbour to the south, especially in the area of using long-term rotations.

We try to pair with our living labs initiative and expand the scope of this particular initiative, and this has resulted in a lot of international effort that is taking place now with Europe. We have an arrangement with France, and in fact we will be hosting an international conference next year on the use of living labs and this citizen-engaged type of approach to the research. That is something that has expanded in Europe as well as with the European Union in general.

We have projects here and there as well, scientist to scientist. I don't know if any of our colleagues here on the panel have some of these and may want to expand, but it's usually the United States and Europe. At this point in time, those are where we have the bulk of our interactions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

Thank you, Mr. MacGregor.

We're at time on the question, but I suspect that Mr. MacGregor will get another six-minute crack at it. Perhaps if we want to follow up on that, we can.

Mr. Lehoux, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Richard Lehoux, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to thank all the witnesses for being here with us this morning.

My first question is for the assistant deputy minister, Mr. Saindon.

According to 2016 Census statistics, 70% of farms are small.

What is the department's approach to small farms in terms of applying new technologies?

In the past, one thing I have worked on is creating windbreaks and reduced tillage. These techniques have been around for over 20 years on small farms.

How does the department encourage small farms to get involved? I feel they could play a much bigger role than they do now.

What is your perspective on this, Mr. Saindon?