Agriculture Committee on Dec. 21st, 2021

[Heath MacDonald, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

Thank you.

That's fine, Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

Thank you, Mr. MacDonald.

It is Mr. Perron's turn for six minutes.

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses for meeting with us this afternoon to discuss this important issue.

Mr. Rosser, the witnesses in our first panel told the committee about the U.S. requirements. We asked them whether there was a timetable for getting P.E.I. potatoes back on the U.S. market. There isn't one because the requirements that have to be satisfied are quite stringent and have apparently increased in number since 2015. However, the methods that have been introduced to clean the products and contain the disease are still proving effective in Canada.

That makes me think we are once again dealing with protectionism in disguise on the part of our neighbours to the south, similar to what we've seen in the case of softwood lumber and electric vehicles. My fear is that they'll want to drag this on.

Is there a backup plan if no agreement is reached in the next few months?

One of the previous witnesses told us that the U.S. wanted to conduct its own study and that it would take four months. Do you know about that?

If we don't come to an agreement with the Americans, what is the plan to help farmers who are in need of support?

[Tom Rosser]

Thank you for your question.

My CFIA counterparts talked about their discussions with the Americans. It is true that the investigation you mentioned will take some time to carry out. We plan to do everything in our power to expedite the process, but it's also important to bear in mind that the situation is fluid.

As Ms. Lapointe mentioned during the previous panel, we think it's possible to get fresh potatoes back on the U.S. market. From our standpoint, the science supports the interprovincial potato trade. We hope the Americans will be open to the possibility before all the scientific research is completed.

Our discussions with P.E.I. and Puerto Rico are continuing, to see whether a resolution can be reached. It may take time to resolve the issue, but that doesn't mean the situation will stay exactly as it is in the interim, as the scientific research is completed.

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Rosser.

Our neighbour may not be acting in good faith, then. What I gather from your comments is that the seed potato issue will probably take a while to fix.

How exactly do you intend to help farmers in P.E.I.?

You brought up AgriStability, but a witness told us they didn't think the program was really suited to the circumstances. Over the past few months, amid the crisis stemming from the pandemic, the department has often told farmers that programs were available. However, the programs are very slow to respond to situations.

Do you plan to make any supports available to farmers?

[Tom Rosser]

Part of the solution may lie with AgriStability, which is an existing program, as you pointed out. The program provides protection and support to farmers who are most affected by the situation. More than 80% of P.E.I. farmers are enrolled in the program.

Clearly, farmers need more help because of the situation, and that's why, yesterday, the minister announced $28 million in funding to provide farmers with more support than is accessible through the business risk management programs.

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

The funding will go towards destroying the crops. Will it not?

[Tom Rosser]

It will go towards more than just that. Yes, the funding can be used for that purpose, but it can also be used to buy potatoes or to help food banks buy them. The funding is meant to help processors use more P.E.I. potatoes.

We're going to speak with industry and provincial representatives to find out what their priorities are and figure out how the funding will be used.

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Thank you.

Mr. Donald, is the funding that was announced enough, or do you need significantly more?

Have you already estimated what the losses will be? How much do P.E.I. farmers need?

[Greg Donald]

Thank you for the question.

Our estimates, which were communicated a few weeks ago and again in detail a week ago, are $60 million. Those are the needs of our producers.

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Is that on top of the $28 million that was announced yesterday?

[Greg Donald]

That's not including the $28 million that was announced yesterday.

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

That would mean you still need more support, on top of what was announced.

Do you have the same impression I do, meaning that this is protectionism in disguise on the part of a trading partner who is cheating more and more often?

[Greg Donald]

Just as a clarification, $60 million in total is what we requested. The funding announced yesterday would provide up to $21 million that could go directly to the producers. Waiting—

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

Sorry, Mr. Donald and Mr. Perron, but Mr. Perron's time is up.

We now go to Mr. MacGregor for six minutes.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Donald, maybe I'll start with you.

First of all, thank you for joining our committee today and providing your perspective, and also for speaking on behalf of all your members about the trials and tribulations they are currently going through.

In your opening statement, you mentioned that other countries have managed to successfully continue exporting potatoes despite the detection of potato warts. I think you may have mentioned the Netherlands.

Do you have any further information on that? Can you expand a bit more on that? I'm curious as to how they were able to do that, whereas we seem to be dropping the full hammer on this problem.

[Greg Donald]

The Netherlands is the world's leader in exportation of seed potatoes. That region, northwestern Europe, has had potato wart since the 1900s. They've been managing the disease through identification of pest-free areas—as has been done similarly in P.E.I.—and other management techniques, including resistant varieties, etc.

It's something that's been there for a long time, and they continue to export potatoes around the world. The number one way to mitigate it is through visual observations.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

In the regime they have in place for tracing the origin of potatoes, you say they're able to sort of compartmentalize different regions so that if there's an outbreak, they can quickly act upon it. How does that compare with what our provinces are doing, in the example of Prince Edward Island?

[Greg Donald]

Up until this year, fields that were associated with a detection were considered restricted fields. All other fields were considered pest-free. To this day, I don't know why CFIA made a change in their protocol or their own plan this year so that they consider P.E.I. to no longer be pest-free. That started by impacting our export business, and the way it was communicated to Canada and the U.S. predisposed us to the issue that we're dealing with right now with the U.S.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

It's a real head-scratcher that an entire province's export is being affected by what was located on a couple of farms. In your conversations with your U.S. counterparts, is there any sympathy on that side, or any acceptance that we have proper management techniques in place so that it wouldn't negatively affect an entire province's exports?

[Greg Donald]

You would have to be more specific about who in the U.S.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

I guess it would be U.S. government officials or their related potato industrial boards and so on.

[Greg Donald]

Most of the people we've talked to in the industry want our potatoes, which has kind of made this very hard for us to understand. In a lot of cases, in the early days they weren't even aware of it. Most of the pressure was coming from the National Potato Council, I believe, and directly to USDA. That's where the concerns were.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Thank you.

Mr. Rosser, you've been listening to our back-and-forth here. I understand completely, and with respect, that this may be a question that CFIA is more able to answer, but can you illuminate for us why an entire province's export industry is being affected when the wart was discovered in only a few select farms? Going forward, can we not learn a lesson from this where we can work with our American counterparts to establish a better management plan whereby if a disease is detected, we can quickly isolate it and lock those farms down, but not have the entire province suffer as a result?

If you have any comments on this line of questioning, it would be greatly appreciated.

[Tom Rosser]

Mr. Chair, for a more technical reply, my colleagues from CFIA would probably be better placed. I would offer a couple of thoughts, maybe just drawing on the earlier testimony.

One, this measure was taken because the U.S. authorities made it abundantly clear that if we didn't take measures to restrict exports from Prince Edward Island, they would do it for us. We deemed it advantageous that the decision to put them on or remove them remained in Canadian hands.

With respect to U.S. stakeholders and a very active dialogue at all levels with the U.S. government, my recollection is that Secretary Vilsack has expressed sympathy and understanding of the situation that this creates in Prince Edward Island. I would note as well that beyond the Canadian embassy in Washington, our network of consulates across the United States has been enlisted to help identify those stakeholders in the U.S. industry who could potentially serve as allies in our engagement on this issue with the United States.

Lastly, I know that colleagues from CFIA have had discussions with their counterparts in the Netherlands and other countries so that we can learn from the experience of others. We have been very focused on the immediate response to the current situation in recent weeks, but we are also thinking about the longer term and doing some outreach to learn from the experience of others in managing situations like this.