Agriculture Committee on June 9th, 2022

[Peter MacDougall]

Regarding Canadian production, I would propose to get back to you or to have Agriculture Canada officials speak to that.

What we do, though, with our international assistance funding, is assist countries to improve their own production, whether through the provision of funding for climate-smart agriculture, food systems or food system governance. There are a lot of ways in which both working directly with countries and through some of the organizations that you mentioned like the FAO and the International Fund for Agricultural Development that we support countries and farmers, and particularly smallholder farmers, to increase their production.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

Thank you.

I know we also heard from Paul Hagerman, the director of public policy with the Canadian Foodgrains Bank. He said that Canada is the third-largest contributor to the international Food Assistance Convention, behind the United States and the E.U. I think he also suggested, when he came before the committee, that we may increase our assistance in proportion to the global food price inflation.

Is there any talk about that, about indexing our contributions to the rate at which inflation is affecting these countries?

[Peter MacDougall]

It's an excellent question.

The way in which we provide humanitarian assistance is that we begin the year with a certain amount of money, which is just over $600 million. We allocate much of that early in the year. Then as new crises emerge, or new needs emerge, we have a number of mechanisms that we can access to increase the funding.

I don't know that we would directly respond to inflation, as opposed to directly responding to an appeal for greater need. As we've done in the case of Ukraine, as new appeals come out, we've increased the amount of money we've made available.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

I was referring back to your point, which was, I think you said, for every percentage point that the price of food goes up, it's about 10 million people who would be food insecure, so it seemed to me that Canada might consider its assistance in proportion to the price inflation of food around the world. It might be an interesting way.

Thank you for that.

Chair, I have one minute? Okay.

What else is Global Affairs working on that will impact the Ukrainian people? I have asked you about the effects around the world of global food insecurity caused by the war. We also understand there are people in Ukraine who are food insecure. I think we heard from the FAO this morning that they are now listed as one of the most food insecure countries in the world on their hot spot map.

What more can we do from your perspective? I know you have already listed what we've done, but what more are we planning to do?

[Peter MacDougall]

Sorry, just to clarify. You said, in Ukraine?

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

Yes, for the people living in Ukraine despite the fact they are being bombed and shelled every day.

[Peter MacDougall]

Absolutely.

I would just say that in the amount of money we have contributed to Ukraine, we are one of the leading donors on the humanitarian front. We continue, as I said, to do about close to $100 million in direct food assistance and then another $140-million plus to support other aspects of the humanitarian response.

The amount of money that Canada or other countries have available will never match the need, and that's equally the case in Ukraine as it is in every crisis in the world. Ukraine does stand out as being the best-funded UN appeal, I think, ever in terms of humanitarian response, and Canada has played a leading role in that. As new appeals emerge from the UN system, we will assess very carefully and propose a response to the government.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

Thank you, Mr. MacDougall. Thank you, Mr. Turnbull.

We now go to Mr. Perron, who has the floor for six minutes.

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to thank the witnesses for being with us this evening, despite the extended meeting.

I will first address what the minister raised earlier, which is the importance of the safe corridor to allow for Ukrainian grain exports. I feel that we must focus on that, at least in the short term, to try to get things rolling.

Do you have any information on the current state of affairs? What can Canada do to help break the logjam or make this corridor happen? Do you have any control over the negotiations, or do you simply need to wait for things to open up?

[Peter MacDougall]

Mr. Chair, I thank the member for his question.

I'm going to speak about the two aspects of how to move Ukrainian grain.

The first, as the minister mentioned, would be some kind of agreement to restore access to the Black Sea. I would say that on that, the UN is leading a process to try to negotiate an agreement between Russia and Ukraine.

Then the other set of alternative routes, which is largely led by the European Union, involves the movement of grain through rail and road to ports in the Baltic Sea, that is, to Poland, and to Romania. That is, as the minister mentioned, a suboptimal solution. You can never move the volumes that you can move through the Black Sea. The European Union is really the lead on that. It has set up a matchmaking mechanism that will allow Canadian companies to become engaged in that process.

Then in terms of how Canada can respond directly, we have received requests from the Government of Ukraine—the minister mentioned a couple of them today—to deal with their export challenges. They have asked for support towards additional grain storage, as you heard, as well as lab equipment to help establish labs in reclaimed territories, which will assist in providing Ukraine exports.

We're working very closely with our colleagues at Agriculture Canada to determine the specifics of those requests, and working with other countries to ensure that there's no duplication or overlap. We're continuing to work on that and hope to come to a resolution very soon.

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Thank you.

You're talking about storage, and my next question is about just that.

How quickly can we help Ukraine with the temporary structures the Ukrainian minister is asking for?

[Peter MacDougall]

I'll start, and perhaps Tara will jump in as well.

Thank you for the question.

The minister characterized it very well in that there is a time aspect to this and that if Ukraine does not have sufficient additional storage in place by no later than September or October, there will be a risk of grain spoilage.

I know that many members of the G7 and the European Union are also looking at increasing the support and provision of storage, and there are many partners. One of them was mentioned earlier today, the FAO, which could help with that.

I'll ask Tara if she has anything to add.

[Tara Denham]

Thank you for that question.

As Peter mentioned, we have received this specific request for grain storage, so we have been working very closely with Agriculture Canada, CFIA and others to go through the specifics. We're very cognizant of the time frame, so we're pursuing finding a number of options and exploring organizations we've worked with before that have procured this type of equipment so we can move fast if we're able to do so. That's what we're working through the system now.

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

I have one last question for you.

Some people are saying that the global grain shortage is part of Russia's strategy to apply pressure in the medium and long term, make headway and obtain significant territorial concessions. What do you know about this?

What information do we have here about the stolen grain that was mentioned earlier? The Russians are trying to establish a parallel trade in this grain, either directly or by mixing it with Russian grain.

Do we have any data on this? Will there be a way to punish those who are profiting from this trade down the line? Is it realistic to think that African countries in need would refuse to buy these grains? This is a very complex issue.

[Peter MacDougall]

Thank you for that question.

In the first instance, I think it is fair to say, based on what we've seen of Russian actions in blockading the Ukrainian ports and putting restrictions on its own agricultural products, that it's trying to use food as a tool of war. With respect to the stolen grain, yes, we have seen probably the same evidence you've seen, which the minister refers to, that grain has been stolen and has shown up in Syria and other places.

Depending on the country receiving the grain—and Syria might be a good example—the level of influence that Canada or even other countries would have over its willingness to accept stolen grain would be very limited.

You've highlighted a very important point, that Russia is using grain to divide. The example the minister gave of the Senegalese president in Russia shows that many African countries are vulnerable.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

I'm sorry, Mr. MacDougall. That's all the time Mr. Perron had.

Mr. MacGregor, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Mr. MacDougall, we have heard not only from Ms. Klymenko, the member of parliament, but also just now from the Minister of Agriculture that first and foremost Ukraine needs the weapons of war to help end this conflict. Thereafter, the immediate needs are for temporary grain storage because of their facilities being maxed out as they are.

I can only imagine the logistical challenges. On one hand we are faced with the logistical challenges of trying to ease the way for Ukrainian grain to leave the country, and on the other we're trying to find ways to get much-needed military hardware as well as important agricultural hardware into the country.

From Canada's perceptive, how are we as a country dealing with what I imagine must be a logistical nightmare?

[Peter MacDougall]

I'm not familiar with agricultural inputs to Ukraine, so I'll ask Tara if she has any additional comments.

[Tara Denham]

Thanks.

Perhaps, if I've understood your question correctly, I'll say that it's a combination of agriculture and military equipment and how we are actually getting items in given the logistical challenges. On one side, there is a lot of coordination with our NATO allies on the military equipment specifically and how it's coming in. You will have seen in the news that we're seeing a lot of targeting as well. Russia is actually targeting rail lines, and that is specifically to try to undermine any delivery of military assistance as well as any provisions of additional equipment, be it for agriculture or otherwise. In terms of detailing that across the G7 and NATO allies, we're asking countries not to disclose when deliveries are taking place so we can increase the likelihood of provisions arriving where they need to arrive in Ukraine, but it is quite a logistical challenge and it requires a level of coordination not only with Ukraine and Ukrainian armed forces but also with allies.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Thank you.

This morning we as a group of parliamentarians were very lucky to be able to speak with the deputy director general of the United Nations Food and Agriculture Organization. She was mentioning that the FAO can play an important role in helping Ukraine maintain the quality of its exports in terms of important phytosanitary review and so on. I know there is pretty strong international recognition of CFIA's standards. Could you maybe fill in the blanks a little bit more about how Canada is aiding the FAO in helping Ukraine maintain not only the quantity but also the quality of its exports?

[Tara Denham]

Thank you for that.

I can start with that one, if you don't mind, Peter.

As I spoke about, we're looking at various options to respond to the Ukrainian request, and those include lab equipment and grain storage, which are complementary to the various other activities we do to support local farmers. FAO is one of the organizations we work very closely with and want to continue to work with because of exactly what you've cited—that they know how to work in this area; they're familiar with the requirements, and they understand the lab parameters that are required. That would be one of the entities we would continue to work with.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Thank you.

Mr. MacDougall, I will ask you my final question. You had an exchange with one of my colleagues—I think it was Mr. Turnbull—and he mentioned the cascading effects of this conflict in food-insecure regions, especially in Africa, and how certainly one of the greatest things Canada can do for the region is to pass on our know-how. You made mention of climate-smart agriculture. I think building that kind of resiliency in countries is going to help them withstand future shocks. We know that climate change is going to be affecting especially that part of the world much more severely than even we are used to here in Canada being in a northern latitude. Can you expand a little bit more on the term “climate-smart agriculture” and on the specific ways Canada is helping countries develop that?

[Peter MacDougall]

Sure. Thanks very much.

It's actually a significant part of our portfolio of investments, especially in Africa but also in other parts of the world. We focus on intensification of agriculture through better fertilizer management, improved soil health and fertility and then the diversification of production. I'll just detail a couple of investments we've made very recently—in fact, since the start of the war in Ukraine. We have provided $100 million to the African Development Bank, which will support the growth of small and medium-sized agricultural businesses in Africa with a focus on climate-smart agriculture. We also provided another $25 million to the International Fund for Agricultural Development, which works a lot with smallholder farmers in rural communities and with a real focus there on climate-smart agriculture. That's really the trajectory of a lot of our investments in the future, towards climate-smart agricultural practices.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

We're going to have to leave it there.

Thank you, Mr. MacDougall and Mr. MacGregor.

Mr. Epp, you have five minutes. Over to you.

[Dave Epp, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Leamington, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, officials, for extending your day with us.

I missed the FAO briefing this morning because I was in Winnipeg last night attending the retirement of Jim Cornelius, who worked for 24 years with the Canadian Foodgrains Bank, so I have now had the opportunity to sit on both sides of that partnership with the Government of Canada and the Foodgrains Bank. I'm quite familiar with that funding partnership, all the way back to 1983, and also with our government's relationship with the Foodgrains Bank and other organizations as well.

Can you put some numbers into context? It was mentioned earlier that we're the third-largest contributor to the Food Assistance Convention, after the U.S. and EU. You mentioned $100 million in base funding, if I understood correctly, and $140 million more that's gone toward Ukraine out of a total of $600 million, or is that $600 million the base amount for our humanitarian assistance response and now we're growing that?