Agriculture Committee on Oct. 5th, 2022

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

You are correct.

My concern, Mr. Turnbull, would be that we could keep adding meetings on Bill C-234 and just drag that out longer. Obviously I don't believe we need to do that. I could put in my amendment, Mr. MacGregor, of a limit of two—with two more meetings on BillC-234, or three—to put a time limit on that.

This is not to you guys across the way, but I don't want the powers that be to try to drag this out and then further delay what you're trying to achieve here. I am more than willing to add that into the amendment as well, if there's support on the floor to do that, so that we could put some sort of timeline on it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

I'm going to seek a little bit of procedural clarification.

Mr. Barlow, at the end of the day, I think you've moved that Mr. MacGregor's study should start after the clause-by-clause of Bill C-234, whenever that happens. I take notice that you might have a concern about how long that process should continue, but I see that as independent. That can be a conversation, frankly, for another day because it's kind of confusing to have two different motions in one. I think it would be better to say that Mr. MacGregor's proposed study would move to after the clause-by-clause on Bill C-234. If you want to litigate how much longer we should study Bill C-234, I think we can take that up in another forum after we've done your subamendment.

Mr. Drouin.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Can I propose that we suspend for two minutes, so that we can huddle quickly and don't have to subamend our subamendment of subamendments, and then come back?

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

I think we have agreement. We'll just huddle. We might remove all our amendments and submit just one, so that everybody's in agreement. We seem to be bobbing our heads. It's just a matter.... You're stuck with procedure and we'll make life simpler for you, if that's okay—if everyone agrees.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

Two minutes would be great. We will suspend.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

Colleagues, thank you.

It was a little more than two minutes, but I appreciate everyone's participation.

In my understanding as your chair, the way this should work is that we are going to seek to get unanimous consent to withdraw the subamendment and the amendment. We're going to allow Mr. MacGregor to reread into the record what I think will satisfy everyone on this committee.

I'm going to seek unanimous consent for Mr. Barlow's subamendment to be removed.

(Subamendment withdrawn)

(Amendment withdrawn)

(Motion withdrawn)

Great.

Mr. MacGregor, the floor is yours to read your motion into the record, and then we'll go from there.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you to all colleagues for working through this. I'm going to read it very slowly for the benefit of our interpreters.

It goes as follows, Mr. Chair. I move:

That, pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), the Committee undertake a study on inflation in the food supply chain and the cost of groceries going up, while large chains are making profits; that the committee examine the profits of large grocery chains in relation to employee wages and the cost of groceries in Canada; that the committee also examine the ability of large grocery chains to leverage their size to cut into the earnings of Canadian farmers; that the committee explore ways in which the food supply chain can help reduce rising food costs, and that the committee invite witnesses with specific knowledge on inflation and affected stakeholders from the industry, including grocer and food supply chain executives, economists, unions and farmers or representative organizations; that no fewer than six meetings are set aside to hear from witnesses; that the committee commence the study after clause-by-clause on C-234 is completed; that the committee report its finding to the House and that, pursuant to Standing Order 109, the Government table a comprehensive response to the report.

I hope that's accurate.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

Thank you, Mr. MacGregor.

I think that was our wordsmithing offside. I don't think any key elements of the intent are missing.

I'll go to Monsieur Perron.

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

I will try to be brief, but what I have to say is important.

Our committee's work was suspended because an issue had to be dealt with quickly, which is perfectly acceptable. I agreed at the time, because needs must, but I would ask that we be very careful.

This has taken time, but I would like my colleagues to understand why. I demanded that I be given the document in French because we were changing what I proposed, but working with another document. Theoretically, we should have been using the first document and working with that one. I myself submitted a text in English and in French. If I am capable of making that effort, all members of the committee should do so as well. This is very important if we want to make things work.

You know that I am a very nice person, but I would like to say to the members of the committee that if this happens again, I will make my opposition known. We are under the gun right now; the second group of witnesses has arrived and we are going to have to rush to pass a motion very quickly.

Some people might have their own views on the subject, but it was important for me to say these things. I recognize the fact that I asked for the document in French and that you provided me with one. I will let it go this time. It remains, however, that things would be much easier if people came prepared next time.

I suggested having at least four meetings, which was informally agreed to. That is the only change that I would make to the document that we have received.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

That's an amendment for four meetings. Colleagues, I don't see any issue with that.

Am I seeing any concerns? Mr. MacGregor, do you have any concerns?

(Amendment agreed to)

(Motion as amended agreed to)

We are at time. I don't think there will be too much of an issue with Monsieur Perron's motion. I'm going to let him read it into the record, and I think we can quickly move on from that as well.

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

That the Standing Committee on Agriculture and Agri-Food set aside two of the meetings scheduled for the study on the environmental contribution of agriculture to study exclusively the problem of the mortality of bees, identify its causes and make relevant recommendations to the government; that these meetings be deemed to be included in the main study on the environmental contribution of agriculture; that these meetings take place after the Christmas break; and that the Committee report to the House on this issue within the plan to report on the environmental contribution of agriculture.

We have added, “after the Christmas break,” because the motion that the committee has just passed makes it impossible to do so earlier.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

Do we have unanimous agreement?

(Motion agreed to)

Next we have Mr. Falk.

[Ted Falk, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to point out that I am in agreement with the motion we just passed that was wordsmithed as a group. I'm in full agreement with that.

I think what you allowed earlier in the meeting was an anonymous email to be read into the record, for fear of reprisal. I understand that. I get that. It's not lost on me. However, we have witnesses at committee all the time when we do our studies, and many of them come here with a fear of reprisal based on their testimony, from either industry partners, suppliers, customers or whomever it may be.

I would just want to caution you, Chair—you have allowed this today—that this does not become a precedent. I don't think that's the direction we want to go in. We want witnesses to come here and to put an identity behind the information that's provided to committee. That's all I'm asking.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

I'll take it under advisement, Mr. Falk. I appreciate that.

Notwithstanding the testimony that was made, it's not my job to litigate whether or not it may be true. Ultimately it would be for the viewers who watch our proceedings to take note that it is anonymous, and that carries its own weight.

I don't want to get caught up too long on this, Mr. MacGregor. If it's very quick, go ahead, or maybe you'll just have a pass.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

I want to say that I was just using it to bolster my argument.

If the person feels comfortable coming to witness.... We know that parliamentary privilege protects whatever speech is given here. It cannot be used against a person when they testify before a parliamentary committee, so maybe that person will have a change of heart.

However, during the course of the study, we want people to be present here with their full names and a full airing of this issue. I agree with you on that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

I appreciate your raising it, Mr. Falk. Next time, if you have an issue, I would ask that you to call a point of order and raise it right at the moment. If that was how you were feeling at the time, I do appreciate the reflection.

Colleagues, we have witnesses in the room, and I would like, with your permission, to change over and continue the global food security study and get those witnesses ready to go.

We're going to suspend for a moment.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

Colleagues, welcome back.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) and the motion adopted by the committee on Monday, May 30, 2022, the committee is resuming its study of global food insecurity.

I'd like to welcome our witnesses for our first panel.

Joining us, from CropLife Canada, here in the room we have Ian Affleck, who is the vice-president of biotechnology, and Dennis Prouse, who is vice-president of government affairs. From Nutrien, we have Mark Thompson, the executive vice-president, chief strategy and sustainability officer. He's joining us by video conference. From Sollio Cooperative Group, we have Ghislain Gervais, who is the president, and Casper Kaastra, who is the chief executive officer.

I know that Monsieur Perron will want to know about testing beforehand.

Mr. Gervais was unable to test ahead of time but does have the proper headset. We don't anticipate that there will be any problems. Otherwise, we have both of our witnesses in the room and Mr. Thompson completed his check. We should be fine on all fronts.

To our witnesses, you have up to five minutes for opening remarks. I'm going to start with our fine folks from CropLife Canada.

I will turn it over to you for up to five minutes, and we'll go from there.

[Dennis Prouse, Vice-President, Government Affairs, CropLife Canada]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, committee members.

My name is Dennis Prouse, and I am the vice-president of government affairs for CropLife Canada. My colleague Ian Affleck, our vice-president of plant biotechnology, is with me.

The issue of global food insecurity is one that is of great concern to everyone across the value chain in Canadian agriculture and agri-food. We take our role in helping to feed a hungry world very seriously, and we are united by a belief that Canada has a moral responsibility to act now in the face of rising global food insecurity to do its part.

In talking about solutions, we think it's also useful to gain some historical context on where we've come from. In 1962 when the world population was four billion, the United Nations estimated that 25% of the world's population was starving or malnourished. Sixty years later, with the world population approaching eight billion, the UN estimates that 9.9% of people are facing hunger. While the world population doubled, we cut the number of people facing hunger by more than half. While that number is still too high, it's a remarkable achievement. The green revolution in modern agriculture, namely innovation and the farmers who have embraced it and skilfully applied it, is what helps drive this success.

In the Canadian context, today's Canadian farm can produce twice as much output as 50 years ago with the same total input. This astounding increase in productivity has been matched by improved sustainability. Total emissions from Canada's agriculture sector have been relatively stable for 20 years, resulting in a decrease of greenhouse gas emission intensity of 50% from 1997 to 2017 compared to a 36% decrease for the economy as a whole in the same period. Due to the adoption of soil conservation practices, agricultural soils in Canada have been sequestering carbon for 20 years.

Plant science and innovation are helping farmers grow stronger, healthier crops across Canada. The data is clear in showing that pesticides and plant-breeding innovations deliver many benefits to Canadian consumers and the environment. Canadian families save an average of $4,500 per year on food costs thanks to efficient, high-yield farming practices.

Notwithstanding the gains we've discussed, though, we know that food insecurity has now started to rise again globally due to the pandemic, global conflicts and climate change. The number of malnourished people may have risen by as much as 150 million people over the last two years. Many members of Parliament are seeing food insecurity at home as well.

There's no magic wand or simple solution to these challenges, but we do believe strongly that modern agriculture and approved sustainable productivity growth can play a role in helping to address food insecurity here at home and abroad. We know that, given the right tools, Canadian farmers and Canadian agri-food businesses can grow and export more. This, in turn, can make Canada more prosperous.

The government-commissioned Barton report in 2017 talked about the untapped potential of Canadian agriculture. In a 2019 report, the Royal Bank of Canada stated that, with the correct skills mix, the agriculture sector could add another $11 billion to Canada's GDP and make the sector more productive than auto manufacturing and aerospace combined.

Modern Canadian agriculture is more sustainable than it's ever been. We're producing more food on less land, using fewer inputs and less water per acre, and burning fewer fossil fuels. This is due to innovation, and the farmer is embracing it. There's an opportunity for us to step up and do more to address food insecurity, but we need the tools to do it. We need a regulatory climate that facilitates and rewards innovation and makes Canada an agriculture technology hub.

Our recommendations, Mr. Chair, would be the following.

One, focus on regulatory modernization as a tool to encourage innovation. Our industry needs a regulatory system that is prompt, predictable and science-based. Politically motivated policy adventures in regulation on crop protection products or biotechnology would put Canadian farmers at a huge disadvantage globally.

Two, promote and defend the sustainability of Canadian agriculture on the world stage. While we work towards continuous improvements, we would like to see Canada promote the sustainability success story of Canadian farmers on the world stage and ensure that it is recognized in all international forums and negotiations. Canada is a world leader in sustainable agriculture and can be a world leader in sustainable productivity growth.

Finally, support exports by promoting science-based trade rules. We ask the government to better use international mechanisms and institutions to ensure science-based, predictable, more transparent trade rules for agriculture. A well-functioning trade system allows nations and regions to focus on the crops and products they produce more efficiently, thus helping to address food insecurity.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. We look forward to any questions the committee might have.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

Thank you, Mr. Prouse. You're right on time. We always like that.

Mr. Thompson, we'll go over to you for up to five minutes, please.

[Mark Thompson, Executive Vice-President, Chief Strategy and Sustainability Officer, Nutrien Ltd.]

Good afternoon. Thank you, Mr. Chair, for the introduction and for the invitation to appear today.

My name is Mark Thompson, and I am Nutrien's executive vice-president and chief strategy and sustainability officer. I'm joining you today from Saskatoon. I'd like to honour our company's practice of acknowledging that this is Treaty No. 6 territory and the homeland of the Métis.

I'll start with a few words on Nutrien. Our company was created in 2018 through a merger between Agrium and Potash Corporation of Saskatchewan, previously two of Canada's leading agriculture and mining companies. We're now the world's largest provider and producer of crop inputs and services. Our global business spans four operating segments across 13 countries, including our retail division, also known as Nutrien Ag Solutions, and the manufacturing and mining of potash, nitrogen and phosphate fertilizers. We have a fertilizer production capacity of over 27 million tonnes. Our retail business serves over 500,000 growers around the world.

We are headquartered here in Canada. Our operations here are extensive and growing. We operate six potash mines in Saskatchewan, four nitrogen manufacturing facilities in Alberta, and nearly 300 ag retail outlets primarily across western Canada. This is in addition to our two corporate offices in Calgary and Saskatoon.

On the issue at hand, food security is a global issue that affects all of us. Increasing concern over global food supplies makes Nutrien's purpose to safely and sustainably feed a growing world more important than ever. Nutrien plays a critical role in global food security by ensuring that farmers have the products, services and technologies they need to sustainably increase food production.

By some estimates, the use of fertilizers accounts for approximately 50% of global crop yields and is critical for growers to meet the continued growth in demand for food. We're taking action to help fill the gap for food and fertilizers caused in part by Russia's invasion of Ukraine and the resulting disruption to the production and trade of energy, fertilizers, grains and oilseeds from this region. While it's impossible for one company to offset these supply impacts alone, we're doing everything we can to meet our global customers' demands.

In June we announced that we would safely accelerate the ramp up of potash production capabilities at our Saskatchewan mines to 18 million tonnes annually—in several increments over the next three years. In the past two years, more than 70% of additional global production brought online has come from Nutrien alone.

I'd be remiss not to mention our ambitious plans to do all of this while also solving for the challenge of climate change. When dealing in societal imperatives like food security and climate, we must think holistically and work collaboratively together. We can't simply choose one or the other. We must solve for both.

That's why in 2021 we launched our feeding the future plan, which includes commitments to help reduce our carbon footprint while preserving and growing food production. Some of these commitments set to be achieved by 2030 include achieving at least a 30% reduction in scope 1 and 2 greenhouse gas emissions intensity, while also investing in the transition to low-carbon fertilizers and scaling up a comprehensive carbon program that empowers growers to accelerate climate-smart agriculture and soil carbon sequestration, where growers are rewarded for their efforts through the generation of carbon credits and assets. On this latter effort, we are in our second year of piloting our carbon program, and we're now targeting 675,000 acres across North America. Interest from growers has been extremely encouraging.

Nutrien is working directly with growers to build customized croplands that reduce their carbon footprint. We assist in taking soil samples and baselines, providing products and technologies and verifying carbon performance. We're also paying growers directly for their participation, anticipating that we need to be ready to support growers in a compliance or voluntary offset market with a focus on scalable, long-term viability.

We're in regular communication with Environment and Climate Change Canada as well as Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada on our learnings and findings, and communicating with provincial government stakeholders.

Enabling Nutrien's carbon program and market-based offset systems are key to helping the federal government achieve its stated ambition of creating pathways to reduce nitrous oxide emissions from fertilizer use. To be clear, based on the advanced practices and performance of growers in Canada relative to other global crop-producing regions, reducing N2O emissions by 30% is extremely ambitious and presents significant risks if viewed in isolation from food production and security.

However, through our joint efforts, we believe we can make significant progress. To the point of today's discussion, we can help Canada tap into significant opportunity in agriculture to deliver on our nationally determined contributions, while addressing domestic and global food security through increased crop production—and build resilience for the future.

With that, I thank the chair and members of Parliament for your time today. I'm pleased to answer any questions you might have.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

Thank you very much, Mr. Thompson.

I will now turn to Mr. Gervais for up to five minutes.

[Ghislain Gervais, President, Sollio Cooperative Group]

Mr. Chair, vice-chairs, ladies and gentlemen of the committee, good afternoon.

Mr. Casper Kaastra, chief executive officer of our Sollio Agriculture Division, and myself, Ghislain Gervais, president of Sollio Cooperative Group, thank you for giving us the opportunity to speak to you today.

I operate a farm with my wife, my son and my brother in Saint-Guillaume, in the Centre-du-Québec region.

Sollio Cooperative Group has been in business for 100 years and is the only Canada-wide agricultural supply cooperative. We represent more than 123,000 members, agricultural producers and consumers, who belong to 48 traditional agricultural and consumer cooperatives.

We have more than 15,000 employees in our three divisions: Olymel, which specializes in pork and poultry processing; BMR, Quebec's retailer of building materials and hardware; and Sollio Agriculture, which supplies farms.

Over to you, Mr. Kaastra.

[Casper Kaastra, Chief Executive Officer, Sollio Cooperative Group]

Thank you, Mr. Gervais.

Sollio agriculture supports producers in eastern Canada to help them maximize their yields by specializing—

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

Excuse me. I'm sorry, Mr. Kaastra. I should have said this at the beginning. I've been advised by the clerk that, if you can change your background from the blurry to a non-blurry background, apparently it has some impact on the sound.

My apologies for the interruption. I've stopped the clock. I don't know if you know how to do that, but I'm being advised....