Agriculture Committee on Oct. 26th, 2022

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, John Barlow]

Colleagues, I call to order our October 26 meeting, meeting number 34 of the House Commons Standing Committee on Agriculture and Agri-Food.

I have a few reminders for some our witnesses for whom this may be their first time. This meeting is in a hybrid format. The proceedings are available on the House of Commons website, and the webcast will always show the person who is speaking, not the entire committee.

Also, for those of you who are here, you cannot take screenshots. I know Mr. Charlebois and a few others have been here before, so they should know that.

Members and witnesses, you may speak in the official language of your choice. Interpretation services are available for this meeting. If translation is lost, I will stop the meeting until we can get it resumed, and I'll pause your time so you won't lose any of it until we can continue on with proceedings.

Before speaking, please wait until I recognize you by name. If you are on video conference, click on your microphone icon to unmute yourself so you can speak. For Elizabeth and others here, your microphone will come on automatically. When speaking, please speak clearly and slowly for the benefit of our translators.

Thank you very much, translators, for all that you do. I know one of your colleagues had a rough day yesterday, and we certainly appreciate all that you're doing for us here today.

I remind all the members and witnesses to address your comments through the Chair.

We are continuing our study on global food security with a focus on domestic food security. I would like to introduce the witnesses with us today. Dr. Sylvain Charlebois is professor and director of agri-food analytics at Dalhousie University—

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

Has a sound test been done for all the witnesses? Do they have all the appropriate equipment so that they can speak without causing the interpreters any problems?

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, John Barlow]

Thank you, Ms. Larouche.

We have Mr. Lowe here as a witness. His headset has been used in previous appearances at the committee. He did not get a House headset, but it has been tested and it has worked in the past. We should be all good.

We have Dr. Charlebois here from Dalhousie University.

Dr. Charlebois, thank you for coming. It's good to see you.

From the Canadian Cattle Association, we have Ryder Lee, the general manager, and Bob Lowe, the past president. From Canadian Pacific Railway, we have Elizabeth Hucker, assistant vice-president of sales and marketing for Canadian grain. She is here in person.

All of our witnesses will be given five minutes for their opening remarks before we move to questions from our colleagues. We'll start with Dr. Charlebois for his opening statement.

You have five minutes. Please go ahead.

[Dr. Sylvain Charlebois, Professor and Director, Agri-Food Analytics Lab, Dalhousie University, As an Individual]

Thank you, Mr. Chair and committee members.

I would like to thank the committee for inviting me here again. This is the ninth time. I’ve always enjoyed my discussions with this committee over the years. Today I’m also joined by my colleague Janet Music, who is also from the lab at Dalhousie University.

From a food security context, Canada has always done well. The global food security index is made up of a set of indices from more than 120 different countries. Since 2012 the index has been based on four main pillars. These are food access, safety, sustainable development and food affordability. This year Finland ranks first, followed by Ireland and Norway. Canada is well positioned compared with other countries around the world, since we are ranked seventh globally, the same as last year.

In terms of food access, which measures agricultural production, farm capacities and the risk of supply disruption, Canada ranks sixth. We produce a lot, and we are also part of a fluid North American economy, which we need to preserve, focused on cross-border trade. All of this allows for better food access. However, our food processing sector needs help and support.

Another pillar focuses on sustainable development, the environment and climate adaptability. This pillar assesses a country's exposure to the impacts of climate change, its sensitivity to risks related to natural resources, food waste management and how the country adapts to these risks. In this regard, Canada ranks 29th. Food waste remains Canada's Achilles heel, as we waste more than just about anyone else on the planet.

The area where Canada's performance is of some concern is food affordability. Canada fell one spot again this year. It sits at 25th in the world. Australia, Singapore and Holland top the list for affordability. Given the resources that Canada has, we should do better.

When it comes to food safety and quality, Canada ranks no less than first in the world. Canada is ahead of everyone, even Denmark and the United States, both renowned for their proactive approaches to food safety. This is often forgotten by consumers.

Our reputation for safety leads me to the Barton report submitted five years ago. The report suggested freeing up the potential of certain key sectors and identified the agri-food sector as one with potential, but it was unfortunately forgotten. The report also mentioned how populations were expanding around the world, the growing demand for protein in Asia and the need for reliable markets like Canada. As the fifth largest agricultural exporter in the world, Canada could become a world leader in terms of confidence in healthy, nutritious and sustainable food in the 21st century. The report went on to say that Canada had the potential to become the second-largest exporter in the world. Yes—second!

A reliable food supply, resource availability, the location of arable land and solid research hubs represent the strengths of our agri-food sector. Not only that, but opportunities around the world are opening up because of the explosion in demand for emerging markets, and the growing number of constraints around the world in terms of land, water, energy and carbon emissions. Our agri-food exports have continued to grow in spite of challenges in the sector, and totalled $82 billion in 2021, exceeding the previous objective, which was to increase agri-food exports to at least $75 billion by the year 2025. If we had a better logistics network and more resilient supply chains, we could do even better.

On November 15, the world's population will reach 8 billion people. When the issue of world food security comes up, Canada is unfortunately barely part of the discussion, and that's something that has to change.

Thank you.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, John Barlow]

Thank you, Dr. Charlebois.

Before we go on to our next witness, I have a couple of housekeeping items that I was remiss in mentioning.

I would like to welcome Mr. Longfield, who is filling in for Mr. Drouin today for a little while.

Welcome back to the agriculture committee. We've certainly had you here in the past.

As well, we have Mr. Shields, who is filling in for Ms. Rood.

Welcome, Martin. You're no rookie to agriculture. It's good to see you here.

Madame Larouche is filling in for Mr. Perron. Welcome.

I asked a few of you about this before we started. We are likely going to have votes in a bit. I want to make sure that we have unanimous consent to carry on through the bells and vote via the app. Are there any concerns with doing that?

Seeing none, that will be the way we proceed. Thank you very much, colleagues. That's very nice for our witnesses as well.

We will now move on to the Canadian Cattle Association for five minutes, please.

[Bob Lowe, Past President, Canadian Cattle Association]

Good afternoon, committee members.

My name is Bob Lowe, and I'm the past president of the Canadian Cattle Association. I also serve as vice-chair of the Global Roundtable for Sustainable Beef.

I am here today to speak to the role of beef producers in addressing food insecurity by continuing to produce our high-quality, sustainable, nutrient-dense protein that feeds millions of people every year. There are several factors that need to be considered—

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Mr. Chair, I have a point of order. This interpretation isn't working.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, John Barlow]

Thank you.

Mr. Lowe, we're going to have to ask you to hang on for one second. I'll stop the clock. Your translation is not working. Perhaps I'll pass it on to the clerk.

Mr. Lowe, unfortunately, you don't have the right headset. It's not working for translation. I don't know if Mr. Lee is also online. Perhaps he could do the five minutes on your behalf.

[Bob Lowe]

Sure.

[Ryder Lee, General Manager, Canadian Cattle Association]

I'm here.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, John Barlow]

Mr. Lee, can you do the presentation on behalf of the Canadian Cattle Association? Unfortunately, Mr. Lowe's headset is not working sufficiently for translation.

You have just under five minutes to go. Carry on.

[Ryder Lee]

As mentioned, I'm here today to speak to beef producers' role in addressing food insecurity by continuing to produce our high-quality, sustainable and nutrient-dense protein that feeds millions of people every year.

There are several factors that need to be considered when discussing global food security that I'll touch on today, and these include trade, labour and sustainability.

Trade is important for food security as it increases utilization and consumer choice, increasing food options at home and abroad. The year 2021 was the sixth year in a row of hitting record export values. Canada produced 181 thousand tonnes of cattle and 1,381 thousand tonnes of beef, of which 50% was exported. This volume is up 3.8% compared with 2020.

Canada exports cuts that are not used or purchased in the domestic market to obtain a higher price. We then import cuts that have strong demand here but that Canada does not produce enough of. In Canada we import about 20% of our annual beef consumption. In essence, trade allows us to decrease food loss and meet consumer needs in Canada and around the world.

We export beef to vast regions of the world due to demand. Despite this increasing demand for protein, there are threats that impact our ability to produce, including chronic labour shortages. The Canadian Agricultural Human Resource Council is developing a long-term strategic plan to address the industry's chronic labour issues. The beef industry is involved in the process. We're optimistic the plan will offer a strategy for all stakeholders, including government, that will help Canada's food production system.

Canadian beef producers are well positioned to meet the global protein demand, leading the way internationally in sustainable production practices. While production methods differ by region and landscape, our goal is aligned to contribute to Canada's economy and food production while conserving and protecting Canada's environment. Our industry recognizes that we can't separate the food security crisis from the climate crisis, because how we respond to one will impact how we are able to respond to the other.

The Canadian beef industry takes our responsibility to produce beef sustainably seriously. We have one of the lowest greenhouse gas intensities for beef in the world, and we've developed an ambitious target to reduce the emission intensity of Canadian beef by 33% by 2030. Our 2030 goals put us on track to meet or exceed the government's absolute target.

Note that the 2030 beef strategy goals focus on emissions intensity. It means we're improving efficiency, regardless of how many cattle we raise or how much we produce. As an industry, we're contributing to the food security crisis by feeding the world's demand for beef with the most sustainable option. That's how we're addressing the food security crisis. If Canada's cattle production is reduced, the world may be left more dependent on less environmentally friendly beef from other nations. The world needs more environmentally friendly food products, not fewer, and Canada has a competitive advantage when it comes to producing high-quality sustainable beef.

Global food security is complex, with many factors to consider, and we're confident in saying that Canadian beef producers are part of the solution. As producers, we're having these conversations domestically and internationally through platforms like the Global Roundtable for Sustainable Beef. We're attending COP27 coming up in Egypt as well as the Biodiversity Conference, COP15, in Montreal.

We need government to work with us to achieve our goals and to speak proudly of beef production here in Canada. The world needs more highly nutritious protein, and the world needs more Canadian beef.

Thank you for inviting us. We're looking forward to the discussion today.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, John Barlow]

Thank you very much. We appreciate your presentation and for being a little bit nimble with us there.

Now we'll move to Ms. Hucker for five minutes, please.

[Elizabeth Hucker, Assistant Vice-President, Sales and Marketing, Canadian Grain, Canadian Pacific Railway]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and good afternoon.

I'm Elizabeth Hucker, assistant vice-president of sales and marketing, Canadian grain, at Canadian Pacific. I appreciate the opportunity to share CP's perspective today.

Your study on global food insecurity is timely. We know that the world is looking to Canada for food security now more than ever. The Russian war against Ukraine and the increasing geopolitical uncertainty in many parts of the world underscore the need for more of Canada's grain and grain products to reach global markets.

CP is firmly committed to delivering grain for our customers day in and day out. Grain is CP's largest line of business by revenue, and we remain focused on growing our grain business by offering customers the most competitive transportation service and by driving efficiencies through the grain supply chain. Significant capital investments by CP and our customers and impressive innovations in the grain supply chain continue to enhance the safety, capacity, efficiency, resiliency and performance of Canada's grain supply chain.

CP has had a very strong start to our grain year. This year, unlike typical years, we went from zero to sixty, so to speak, since there was very little grain moving on our rail network through the summer months prior to this year's crop. Then the harvest began earlier than the industry expected and forecasted after some favourable weather in the last half of August. We moved rapidly to mobilize cars, locomotives and crews earlier than our customers had forecasted. We spotted many cars during the last three weeks of September compared to the same period in previous years, and we moved more grain into position at ports for unloading than ever before in those same three weeks. Then, in the first week of October, we spotted more empty covered hoppers than ever before in our history, and we broke that record again last week.

CP is looking forward to continuing the strong early momentum to deliver for our customers. We have the capacity on our railroad in terms of crews and rolling stock to deliver this year's crop safely and efficiently. As committed to in our grain plan, CP plans to supply 6,000 grain hoppers each week while the port of Thunder Bay is open, subject to market demand.

CP's operational plan is calibrated to the available capacity throughout the supply chain. Our forecast assumes that the entire supply chain, including the critical portion through Vancouver, will run at or near capacity throughout the entirety of the crop year. Actions taken by supply chain partners, our customers, port terminal operators and other railroads that cover the last-mile haul can in some cases have a significant impact on the overall throughput.

To maximize the grain supply chain, Canada needs to improve the ability to load grain into vessels in Vancouver during the rainy season. Each year, there are extended periods of time when shipping capacity through Vancouver is lost because unionized forces prefer to wait for inclement weather to pass before loading grain vessels, even though solutions exist to permit safe loading, which have been used in the past and in other locations around the world.

The inability to load vessels uninterrupted by such weather has cascading effects through the entire supply chain, which includes not only vessels and grain terminals but also railways, grain companies and our farmers. Delays in loading vessels unavoidably cause delays through the system, since Vancouver-bound grain unit trains must be held at inland terminals or on the rail network.

The constraint overall to the network capacity undermines the performance of the entire grain supply chain. The federal government can play a constructive role in bringing together all stakeholders, including unions, to find a reasonable, pragmatic solution to resolve the issue in a manner that maintains high safety standards.

This year, CP is completing its $500-million investment to purchase new high-capacity grain hoppers. In total, we'll have more than 73 new CP owned and leased high-capacity hoppers in our service. When combined with our innovative 8,500-foot high-efficiency train model, the new high-capacity grain hoppers are delivering in excess of 40% more grain per train.

Finally, in the first quarter of next year, CP anticipates securing regulatory approval from the U.S. Surface Transportation Board to combine with the Kansas City Southern to create Canadian Pacific-Kansas City, the first single-line rail network seamlessly connecting Canada, the United States and Mexico. Subject to regulatory approval for shippers throughout North America, this will provide enhanced competition and routing options for shippers throughout the countries.

This proposed network is a transformative opportunity for Canada's grain shippers, because it will directly connect production-rich CP origins in the Canadian Prairies to new export destinations in the United States and Mexico.

With that, Mr. Chair, I would be pleased to answer any questions from the committee.

Thank you.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, John Barlow]

Thanks, Ms. Hucker. I appreciate your testimony.

We will now move on to questions from the floor. We will start with the Conservatives and Mr. Lehoux for six minutes.

[Richard Lehoux, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to thank the witnesses for being here this afternoon. My first questions are for Mr. Charlebois.

You spoke about food waste. According to you, this is an important factor, and we have to be much more efficient.

We've been talking about world food security, but we might well begin by thinking about feeding ourselves properly here in Canada. At the moment, there are many food banks in Canada. Last week, I had the opportunity to speak with people at various food banks, as I often do.

How can we do a better job of distributing food to help Canadian food banks?

[Dr. Sylvain Charlebois]

Thank you for the question. I should point out that I sit on the board of directors of the Second Harvest charity in Toronto. I believe that the CEO of the organization, Ms. Lori Nikkel, will be testifying before the committee in the next hour, and that would be a good question to ask her.

Second Harvest rescues food at every stage in the supply chain. Its role is to rescue as much food as possible.

During the COVID-19 pandemic, there was more waste than usual. We haven't really spoken about it or taken steps to do anything about it, but we believe there was more waste because of inefficient supply chains. It will be important to step up efforts to support approaches like Second Harvest's to rescue as much food as possible, from the farm to the grocery store. Companies like Loblaws and Sobeys are already fairly generous. Perhaps it might…

[Richard Lehoux, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

Excuse me for interrupting, Mr. Charlebois, but people at the food banks have been telling me that for the past six months, they were receiving far fewer products from the major supermarket chains. The food banks therefore have to purchase products that were formerly given to them. This might mean that the supermarkets have an important role to play.

[Dr. Sylvain Charlebois]

The supermarket chains have fewer products to give away because people are paying closer attention to the food they buy. People now buy more of their food at the last minute. More and more food is being sold after its best before date. That's because the cost of food is increasing. That's why there are fewer products making their way to the food banks.

Getting back to Second Harvest, its approach, which is to rescue food throughout the supply chain, makes it a useful model in my opinion.

[Richard Lehoux, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Charlebois. You might ask Ms. Nikkel about that later on.

You also raised the key issue of processing, where there is a major problem. Many of the processors I am familiar with in my region are encountering labour problems. As a result, slaughter capacity at several plants has been reduced, and this has had an impact on primary, secondary and tertiary processing.

What would you recommend the government should do to improve the situation? Should slaughter, and secondary and tertiary processing, be decentralized?

[Dr. Sylvain Charlebois]

There is definitely a slaughter problem, not only in Quebec, but across Canada. It has to be acknowledged and dealt with through regulation and support, particularly through market access measures. I know there has been a lot of discussion about the code of practice among distributors, processors and buyers—hence retailers. That's what's missing in Canada in my view.

By adopting regulations that are more ethical and equitable for processors, small slaughterhouses would have a chance to survive. For the time being, it's almost impossible for them to compete.

[Richard Lehoux, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

I'd like to look at this from another angle.

You mentioned safety earlier. You said that we were one of the leading exporters in the world. Canada, it is true, is an exporting country, but it also imports products from other countries.

Do you think we can rely on products that we import to meet the same standards as those Canadian producers must comply with?

[Dr. Sylvain Charlebois]

Additional efforts are required in this area. I personally have confidence in the Canadian Food Inspection Agency. I believe that Canada is a model in terms of food safety. Canada's performance has often been compared to that of other countries. I'm guessing that you are suggesting consistent standards, which is relatively easy to accomplish in North America, but much more difficult on a world scale. It's true, however, that Canada does a great deal of trade with the rest of the world.

The U.S. Department of Agriculture and the U.S. Food and Drug Administration have been doing more and more risk assessment in foreign lands, and I feel we should encourage the Canadian Food Inspection Agency to do the same. It isn't exactly a matter of regulation, but rather of monitoring risks outside the country.

[Richard Lehoux, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

Right. My next question was headed in that direction.

Does the Canadian Food Inspection Agency currently have the required resources? We asked a lot of people about this, and it would appear that there are some gaps.

What's your point of view on that, Mr. Charlebois?

[Dr. Sylvain Charlebois]

I acknowledge that these gaps exist and that there is work to be done in this area.

As I just mentioned, we can look at what the U.S. Department of Agriculture is doing. I spent six months in the United States last winter, and was able to look at their practices. They proactively carry out on-site assessments of risks abroad to ensure that practices are acceptable for American citizens. We here in Canada should do the same.