Agriculture Committee on Oct. 26th, 2022

[Dr. Sylvain Charlebois]

We look at the size of our herd, our competitiveness here and what we have from a regulatory standpoint so that we can make it the best place for us. Some of it will be related to cattle supply, and we look at rebuilding that. There are all kinds of things that go into that.

I'm not familiar with your neighbourhood, but if you have one slaughter plant there, the likelihood of another one coming in right nearby will really depend on the cattle around it. We talked a little bit about market access, labour and the people who are working there too.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, John Barlow]

Thank you, Mr. Lee. I appreciate that.

Thank you, Ms. Larouche.

Now we'll go to Mr. MacGregor for six minutes, please.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to all of our witnesses for helping guide our committee through this study.

Professor Charlebois, I would like to begin with you.

When you mentioned sustainable development, you took the time to mention our exposure to climate change. Certainly we have heard that as a reoccurring and perennial theme through multiple studies. I'm just wondering if you can maybe explore that a little bit more for our committee. Specifically, I feel like our farmers are doing a pretty amazing job. They are exceeding our export targets. Many sectors are doing quite well.

I know that we put a lot of pressure on our farmers to meet those targets and they are coming up to the challenge, but at the same time, they are also fighting a rearguard action against climate events. We know that a lot of our infrastructure can be quite critically exposed. I'm just looking at my own province last November.

Do you have anything to add within the context, within the theme of food security, as to what the Canadian government needs to do more of to address our exposure to climate change in order to help our farmers out with that rearguard action?

[Dr. Sylvain Charlebois]

Thank you for the question. It's a very good and important one. I'll try to be as brief as possible. I think it's a complex issue.

What I've seen over the years was very much a patchwork in dealing with the impacts of climate change. I think we need to accept the fact that risks move—they don't disappear really—as a result of climate change.

We often talk about supply chain resiliency or resiliency in general. I think we need to accept that and accept the fact that issues are always going to be emerging. A way to do that, of course, is to build better infrastructure and support our farmers and processors the best we can to deal with the moving risks as much as possible. There will always be something that will come along to disrupt business, the growing season or anything within the agri-food sector.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Thank you for that.

On the theme of exposed infrastructure, I would like to turn to Canadian Pacific Railway.

You are, of course, very familiar with what happened in British Columbia where Vancouver, our busiest port, was cut off from the rest of the country.

I'm sure Canadian Pacific Railway has a massive business that goes from coast to coast. You are taking a look at your own rail infrastructure and seeing how exposed some links might be to future climate disasters, be they wildfires or flooding events. How has your progress been in identifying those weak links in our rail infrastructure? What is CP doing in terms of a long-term strategic plan to address it?

What more would you like the federal government to do to assist you, so that our rail infrastructure is able to be resilient in the face of climate-related disasters?

[Elizabeth Hucker]

Each year we have a maintenance plan associated with our network, which we go through. I believe the number is close to 20% of our annual revenues, which we spend back in capital on our company, whether it be on infrastructure, IT or otherwise. It is a very important part of our resiliency in our supply chain overall.

When we're looking across the network to areas where there may be issues, typically most of those are focused on and associated with historical events. For instance, in the Red River in Manitoba, the flooding actions tend to happen there on an annualized basis. We have proactive plans in place to manage the situations on a reactive basis but also on a proactive basis. For instance, in through Manitoba and Ontario, we increased the height of our track so we wouldn't lose the track in the event of flooding. Actually, through this year we were able to maintain service through that corridor despite some significant flooding overall.

We continue to do work on an annualized basis as we look across our network overall. A significant effort and a significant amount of our capital is spent maintaining our network and creating resiliency in the track and the ballast that's there.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Thank you.

I have a final question for Mr. Lee, since you stepped in to give the presentation.

You did make a mention of labour. Despite that, you mentioned that you keep on hitting record export targets. Congratulations to the beef sector on stepping up to the plate and really hitting that.

Of course, you have the Canadian Cattle Association, the feedlots and the processing. In terms of the labour challenges along the beef supply chain, where does the federal government need to step in particularly to address it?

If you want to take some time, expand on your opening comments.

[Ryder Lee]

The labour shortage is from the farms where cows have calves, right through to the grocery stores. We're challenged to hire people to work, especially in rural Canada. We often won't get applications for well-paying jobs that can include housing, transportation and a quality of life that I think could be envied.

Like I said, it's both a cow-calf and a feedlot challenge. It doesn't matter the kind of production. When you get to the spot where you're bigger than one family and you need to hire somebody, boy, it's hard to even get applications. We're short on veterinarians, truck drivers and all manner of skilled professions and service providers.

The government can help make it easy for people to become Canadian. We need to ensure that applicants from outside of Canada can get here to do these jobs. We have trucks that are sitting empty. We need trucks drivers, too.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, John Barlow]

Thanks, Mr. Lee. I'm going to have to cut you off there.

Thanks, Mr. MacGregor.

The bells have started. We're going to carry on and we will keep an eye on the clock. We'll take a bit of a break, hopefully after these last two rounds for the Conservatives and Liberals, to switch out the panels. Then we'll hopefully give everybody a chance to vote soon after that on the app.

Now we'll go to the Conservatives and Mr. Steinley for five minutes, please.

[Warren Steinley, Conservative, Regina—Lewvan, SK]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

My first question will go to Ms. Hucker from CP. We asked a similar question when we had CN at committee.

What will the the “no replacement worker” legislation effect be if there is a rail strike? Seeing that we're talking about food security, supply chains and some of the risks to supply chains, how do you see this new piece of legislation working out? Will the trains still be able to run if there is a strike in the future?

[Elizabeth Hucker]

It's something we're actively reviewing. I believe that our concern is the unintended consequence associated with that component.

We run commuter rail, for instance, and from that standpoint, it's one of the bigger concerns that exist in the event of a labour outage. Again, we are reviewing it, but we are concerned about the unintended consequences.

Mr. Chair, if there is more that is required, I'm happy to take to come back to the committee on this subject.

[Warren Steinley, Conservative, Regina—Lewvan, SK]

Thank you very much. I'm going to try to get a question to everyone.

Professor Charlebois, it's good to see you.

We both went to the University of Regina, so I met you in another life. I'm not sure if you remember that.

[Dr. Sylvain Charlebois]

I do.

[Warren Steinley, Conservative, Regina—Lewvan, SK]

You touched on the fertilizer tariff. With the fertilizer emissions reduction target that this government is looking at implementing, how do you see that affecting the food supply for the future if that policy is put into place?

[Dr. Sylvain Charlebois]

It's a fair question. I would say that I'm deeply concerned about the tone related to fertilizer emissions. Ask any farmer, whether in Saskatchewan or elsewhere, and it's the fuel they need to support their soil in order to increase yields and better our food security situation. It's quite essential. Some of the discourse related to the use of fertilizers in recent months has been quite concerning to us, and obviously to farmers as well.

It's important to do things to counter the impact of climate change and to make sure that we meet our gas emissions targets. At the same time, we also have to recognize that some of the decisions we're making may compromise our ability to grow food, and that's certainly one example.

[Warren Steinley, Conservative, Regina—Lewvan, SK]

Yes. I think there could be some unintended consequences to some of the policies, and I think that's what you're trying to get at.

Mr. Lee, it's a pleasure to see you once again. You touched on something that was very interesting. Our GHG intensity is lower compared with other jurisdictions—competition countries—that raise cattle as well.

I'm wondering if you would be able to expound on how much lower our GHG emissions would be when we raise cattle, compared with some of the countries that would fill that void to be more self-sufficient if we had fewer cattle in Canada.

[Ryder Lee]

There is a lot that goes into it: how we manage our land, the grazing practices, our cattle, the breeds, the tools we use to manage those lands. Even the feed makes them grow more efficiently and affects that intensity. There's the modern technology that we use that helps us grow our cattle faster. We've been a decent place for approving new technologies, and that helps as well.

I don't have at hand the numbers of us versus that country or that country. However, keeping our regulatory approvals process for new innovations and staying a science-based country that makes the science drive those decisions are really important to continuing to move forward like this.

[Warren Steinley, Conservative, Regina—Lewvan, SK]

Thank you, Ryder.

I have one more question.

You mentioned the possibility of processing plants sometimes going across the border, based on uncertainty when it comes to regulations and maybe even taxation. What regulations and taxes are keeping us from being a more self-sufficient industry when it comes to cattle? Why are we losing those processing facilities to across the border?

[Ryder Lee]

We're more than self-sufficient. We export about half of what we produce. We're good there.

As far as that value-add process, right now it is our SRM rules, which harken back to BSE changes since 2003. Since becoming reclassified by the animal health organization as a negligible risk, we have the opportunity to update our regulations, become more competitive and be on a level playing field with the U.S., so that we can get rid of that difference and move forward from there.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, John Barlow]

Thanks, Mr. Lee. I'm sorry. I hate to be the cutting you off all the time. You're a popular subject.

Thanks, Mr. Steinley.

Now we'll move to Mrs. Valdez for five minutes, please.

[Rechie Valdez, Liberal, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses for joining today.

I'll direct my questions through you, Mr. Chair, to Dr. Charlebois.

You mentioned in an article that Canada ranks number one in the world for food safety and quality. However, we have opportunities, given the result of climate change and the ever-changing environment. I want to know if you can give us any examples of how we, in Canada, have adapted to these changing times.

[Dr. Sylvain Charlebois]

Thank you, Mrs. Valdez.

I would say that right now Canada performs quite well when it comes to risk management, in particular in animal science and soil science. There's a lot of work that has been done that is quite valuable. Our risk-based assessment process has been very strong. I sit on the national advisory committee of the CFIA, so I'm very much aware of the work that has been done over the years. I recognize that the CFIA has learned a great deal.

There have been some severe mistakes made over the years, in particular in relation to the avian flu, and I think of the Abbotsford situation. I think it was in 2003. That was not very well managed. But now, when you look at what's going on this year with the avian flu, I actually do think they're doing a better job of managing risks.

I think the CFIA has done some homework outside our country, learning from other countries, which is not something we saw before. Overall, I consider CFIA to be a learning organization, which has helped Canada to go up in rankings when it comes to food safety.

[Rechie Valdez, Liberal, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

Thank you.

You have also said, “Despite our recent episodes of empty shelves and stock outs, food abundance is certainly something Canada can boast about. We produce a lot, and we are also part of a fluid North American economy, focused on cross-border trade.”

What opportunities do we have to address the global food crisis, in your opinion?

[Dr. Sylvain Charlebois]

We need to look much more seriously and in a more committed way at other markets beyond the United States. There's tremendous potential.

When you look at China and bordering countries, basically half the world's population will be there. The population is growing. As I mentioned earlier, we'll reach eight billion people in a few weeks. The growth is there. We need to figure out ways to develop that market. There's also Africa. In a few years from now, Africa will have one-fifth of the world's population. These are opportunities, I think, for our agri-food sector that should be tapped much more often.

[Rechie Valdez, Liberal, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

In your opening remarks, you said that Canada's Achilles heel is food waste. Our government has invested $15 million in Guelph, pretty close to my riding, to reduce food waste by 50% by creating a circular food economy. Do you have any comments on a circular food economy and diverting waste to other uses?