Agriculture Committee on Feb. 10th, 2022

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

Certainly we recognize that shorter and more resilient supply chains are almost synonymous, to some degree.

I wonder if you have recommendations for how AAFC might support a greater degree of innovation and then help to build the infrastructure or support to scale those innovations.

As you quite rightfully note in your briefing document, it's not just about having the idea and innovating within one company or one opportunity. It's to actually scale and increase the adoption of that innovation right across the food system. Can you speak to what's required to actually build a more conducive or enabling system for that innovation?

[Serge Buy]

We certainly believe that the government could play an important role at this point in convening the various stakeholders to discuss some of those solutions and in developing a long-term strategy for research and innovation that includes a focus on adoption as well. Yes, the government can play an important role in this.

I don't think it's just the funding part. It's also the portion about convening and supporting the players. Lots of companies are doing innovation, but there needs to be, as you've noted, support for the scaling up. I think the government can play a role in this as part of a broader strategy.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

Thank you

I notice that you are calling for a national strategy for agri-food research and innovation. I want to ask you what role you see colleges and universities playing.

In my riding of Whitby, I have Durham College, which has the centre for food. It's doing remarkable work on a full field-to-fork concept and on innovating in making their own beer and wine, growing their own food and teaching hospitality, etc., all in the same location.

What do you see as the role for colleges and universities in that innovation strategy?

[Serge Buy]

Academia is a crucial part of this. Universities and colleges need to play a role.

This is why, when we called for the creation of this strategy, the Deans Council—Agriculture, Food and Veterinary Medicine supported our call. This is why colleges in the country, such as Olds College and others, are also supporting our call.

Definitely, they need to play a role.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

Thank you.

Mr. Perron, the floor is yours for six minutes

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I will begin by thanking the representatives of the three organizations for taking the time to join us today. We really appreciate it.

Mr. Buy, allow me to continue with you.

You talked about implementing a national strategy on research and innovation. Is it necessary for that kind of a strategy to be highly centralized? Shouldn't the government rather give freedom of action to businesses and educational institutions?

Among others, you mentioned the Deans Council, Agriculture, Food and Veterinary Medicine. Its representatives have met with us a number of times to raise a red flag about the lack of investments in university research.

Wouldn't a government policy that would provide a tax credit or financial support for anything related to innovation and research be even easier, without a new administrative structure being needed?

[Serge Buy]

You will note, Mr. Perron, that I am not a fan of creating new administrative structures. However, I do agree with Mr. Blois, who proposed that we be an agricultural superpower. I encourage that idea. But if our country wants to remain an agricultural superpower, we will need a concerted strategy among the federal government, the provinces, post-secondary institutions and industry.

Decisions will have to be made on where to invest, and they must be made in consultation. I don't think investments should be made in everything. I rather think we must focus our investments on things that will provide benefits, be it in terms of job creation, support for certain jobs or exports. To get there, we need a well organized strategy.

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Who would lead that strategy?

[Serge Buy]

That's a good question.

A number of my colleagues have talked about consultation, communication and meeting tables. A while ago, John Manley talked about consultation constipation, meaning that consultations are being held all over the place, and that is a bit concerning.

Our organization would prefer if the federal government and industry had a common vision and co‑chaired that consultation table in order to create a national strategy once and for all to guide us over the next five years. It is important for the government not to work in a silo. The government, industry and provinces must be at the same table, at the same time.

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Yes, as jurisdiction will be an issue.

[Serge Buy]

Absolutely.

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

It will be long and complex.

If the government began by providing adequate funding for our educational institutions that conduct research and train our veterinarians, would that be a step in the right direction?

[Serge Buy]

I completely agree that they must be funded adequately, just as research centres must be funded adequately. I absolutely support their demands. You will see that the deans council supports our appeal. It is not a matter of choosing one or the other; it's a matter of having both, together.

Contrary to what you are saying, I don't think the process will really take a lot of time. I think the process could be a quick one that will produce tangible results.

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Some other groups are proposing that a position of procurement commissioner be created in order to coordinate actions. That seems somewhat similar to me.

What is your take on that?

[Serge Buy]

As I just said, I am not too favourable to the creation of new levels of bureaucracy, as we already have a number of them in Canada. What is more, commissioners of this and that don't necessarily have all the powers they need. The creation of such a position is often announced to resolve a specific minor problem, but the commissioner will have no real powers afterwards.

I think that a national strategy on innovation and research would be different. I am not sure we need new administrative structures. A strategy is a document, a guide, and not a new bureaucratic structure. I prefer that kind of a thing to new layers of bureaucracy, as Canada already has many of those.

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

In the short term, could we not create a tax credit for investment in new technologies, in businesses that need it? In our previous studies, including the one on processing, we found that there was significant underinvestment in Canada's and Quebec's agri-food industry.

[Serge Buy]

You will note that, last time I appeared before the committee on this issue, I recommended that this type of tax credit be created. So I absolutely agree with that. It is important to create those kinds of measures.

That said, the government is continuing to take action in various areas to resolve crises. I think a long–term vision is now needed. The government is continuing to focus on the present instead of planning for the long term. That is exactly why we find ourselves in this position.

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Yes, but can we not work on those two aspects at the same time?

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

We certainly can. As I said, that is absolutely what must be done.

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Buy.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

Thank you, Mr. Perron and Mr. Buy.

Mr. MacGregor, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Thank you so much, Chair.

Maybe I'll start with Ms. Sullivan from Food and Beverage Canada. It's good to see you before our committee again.

With respect to the labour problems that you very clearly outlined for us, those are very stark figures. Even for someone who has been on this committee for four years, and who has seen this perennial problem, those are pretty brutal.

In my region, we saw housing prices go up anywhere from 30% to 40%. I want to get a sense from you on whether your members are doing any kind of surveys amongst the labour force. What are workers reporting back to you about the cost of living? Are they even able to afford to live in the regions where the work is? I know that a lot of people would love to work, but they also have to judge other things in their life, like their housing costs, their transportation costs, etc.

Can you maybe link that in? This doesn't exist in a silo. It has to be linked to other things as well.

[Kathleen Sullivan]

You're absolutely right.

In this long-term strategy that we're working on, infrastructure is one of the pieces that we are tackling. Housing prices are a problem. Availability and affordability of day care can be a problem. It's not just the cost of public transportation, but remembering that in any manufacturing setting, you're doing shift work. Sometimes it's even the availability of public transportation. We really have to take a look at that whole package, at things that enable people to be able to go into work or to be able to live in the regions where we need them.

We definitely see problems. In food manufacturing, sometimes you're in rural areas where you've seen depopulation and it's hard to find people. Sometimes, you're in urban areas where the cost of living makes it very difficult to find people. One of the things we are seeing is that even in the rural areas, the housing prices are now starting to become a bit prohibitive for our employees. We have to get our head around that. This is a relatively recent phenomenon or it's certainly accelerated recently through COVID.

What food processors who use the temporary foreign worker program have done over years, even predating COVID, is purchase housing stock. They would have, in some cases, purchased entire apartment buildings so that they can be sure that their workers actually have appropriate housing that's appropriately priced.

As we have seen with the labour supply in the last six months, things have shifted under our feet and we're going to have to get a handle on that whole infrastructure piece. Subsidized day care will absolutely help contribute to that, but there's a big piece here that we're going to have to figure out.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

This study that we're doing is on supply chains. A lot of our trade is with our southern neighbour. We're in a situation right now where border crossings in Windsor, Ontario; Emerson, Manitoba; and Coutts, Alberta are being affected by protests.

Are you getting any feedback from your members? Is it starting to have an immediate impact on their ability to continue their operations?

[Kathleen Sullivan]

It's going to have an impact in a couple of ways. One is the ability for us to get product across the border. The other is our ability to receive inputs or supplies—including packaging—from the U.S.

As I pointed out earlier, we deal with a fairly major transportation disruption, it seems, almost every year.

In my sector, where we're doing processing, a lot of times we are delivering to distribution centres. The distribution centres have a certain supply of products we've manufactured. We are just-in-time delivery, but we have that buffer.

We are already seeing a backup of trucks, as everyone is. Because of the amount of time it takes for that to register in the grocery store or in plants that can't operate because they don't have supplies, it hasn't hit yet.

It has to be clear to all of us that the sooner the blockades are ended—as would be the case in a strike or anything else—the better off supply chains will be.