Agriculture Committee on Feb. 10th, 2022

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Yes. They'll be very much so.

Mr. Buy, it's good to see you before our committee as well.

You talked a lot about logistics and the need that we have to modernize transportation networks. When Vancouver was cut off from the rest of the country back in November, it took some time for companies to reroute through Washington state.

Can you talk a bit about some of the innovation that's needed to bring spreadsheets into the 21st century? Maybe you can talk about some of the technology that exists out there that can allow for instantaneous rerouting, such as artificial intelligence that's analyzing the situation and helping companies deal with the unexpected.

[Serge Buy]

You put your finger on it. This is why I wanted to quote the professor from the University of Saskatchewan who talked about quantum cubit computing. It would, within a few seconds, probably provide some of the companies solutions in terms of rerouting. In a huge crisis like there was, rerouting may or may not be possible.

At the same time, we need to plan for the future. British Columbia was at one point looking at marine or air transportation, instead of trucks. There were a number of interesting options that were provided.

We need to look at this a bit more and look at how we adapt better on that front.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

Thank you.

Colleagues, we're going to go five minutes for the Conservatives and Liberals, then two and a half for Bloc and NDP and we'll call it quits for tonight.

We will go over to the Conservative Party.

[Richard Lehoux, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank the witnesses for joining us this afternoon.

My first questions are for Mr. Buy from the Agri‑Food Innovation Council.

First, thank you for your brief. You spoke a great deal about a very important labour issue. However, another very important issue concerns innovation and robotics in our processing companies, specifically in the animal sector. I speak from experience, given the Olymel plant in my constituency.

How are you working with animal processors in order to make further progress on robotics? It wouldn't resolve all the issues, but it would mitigate them.

[Serge Buy]

I think that you received some answers from the study that you already conducted on this topic.

One major issue is the ability to fund the adoption of new technology. This is a glaring issue. Some of our companies aren't in a position to implement these new robotics technologies, which are expensive, especially in the beginning.

Moreover, in certain rural areas, some of these technologies simply aren't accessible. This creates another issue for some of these companies.

I think that both these things must be addressed. Some good recommendations came out of your last study. I'm glad to see that you have extended the study. I'll be happy to hear the government's response to your report.

[Richard Lehoux, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

We can find out the government's response to the report that we tabled again.

You spoke a great deal about the need for a strategy. I've spoken a great deal about this too. I was quite amused when you compared the situation to constipation. When we rely too much on consultation and lack leadership, things get complicated.

How do you see this national strategy being developed? I understand that all partners will be involved, including the private sector, the federal government and the provinces. That said, someone must take the lead.

[Serge Buy]

I think that the leadership should come from two groups: the industry and the government. The government can't lead the discussions alone. I think that some questions will arise about the future course of action. Leadership in the development of this national strategy must come from both the government and industry. In the process, other existing partners, such as the provinces, universities and colleges, will also be involved.

In terms of Mr. Perron's question, I would say that this process doesn't need to take long. If there's a will, there's a way to get things done quickly. Let the industry co‑chair this initiative. I assure you that things will happen quickly.

[Richard Lehoux, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

I want to address this, Mr. Buy. I think that the government must let the industry know very quickly that it's prepared to work with them to develop this national strategy.

Are we in agreement, Mr. Buy?

[Serge Buy]

I really want to see a message from the government on this issue soon. I check regularly to see whether smoke signals are being sent in the right direction. However, I still don't see any. I'm still waiting for Agriculture and Agri‑Food Canada or the government in general to express its willingness to act on this. Several departments are involved in this issue.

[Richard Lehoux, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

Several departments may be involved in developing this national strategy, so someone must take the lead.

One of your clear recommendations is to follow up on Mr. Barton's advice to create a synergy among the various departments. The government and the Prime Minister must show a strong commitment to this.

The issue was there before, but it has only grown in the wake of what we've experienced over the past two years. I think that we all agree that this issue must be addressed quickly.

[Serge Buy]

I agree.

[Richard Lehoux, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Buy.

I have 10 seconds left. Right, Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

I'm sorry, Mr. Lehoux, but you have only five seconds left.

[Richard Lehoux, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

In that case, I'll thank the participants.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

Thank you.

I'll now give the floor to Mr. Drouin for five minutes.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to extend my greetings to you, Mr. Buy. My colleague, Mr. Turnbull, has already asked you some good questions. Since your organization is active in my constituency, I'll be visiting you in Alexandria. I'll have more than five minutes to have a proper discussion with you about agri‑food.

I want to turn my attention to Ms. Sullivan.

You've raised a few points with regard to the temporary foreign worker program. I'm not sure if you measured the impact. Two years ago, Premier Legault made a call for Quebeckers to come to work in the agri-food businesses. This was at a time when the unemployment rate was in the double digits because we were just starting with COVID-19.

I'm wondering if your members reported—back in April, May or June 2020—an increase in the uptake of those jobs.

[Kathleen Sullivan]

When COVID began we were probably looking at a 10% vacancy rate in food and beverage manufacturing. We're now up to 25%.

A lot of that is due to factors related to the pandemic, but it makes it very difficult, if not impossible, to measure what might have worked in other regards. It's difficult to separate out different elements right now.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Thank you.

I imagine that an example of some of the recommendations you're making for facilitating a better flow of temporary foreign workers to fulfill that demand would be that increase from 10% to 20% in food processing?

[Kathleen Sullivan]

Yes, we're actually recommending that the cap—

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

Ms. Sullivan, I'm sorry.

I'm being told by the clerk and our technicians that for the folks who are in the room, when you do stop speaking, could you make sure your microphone goes off? That's why we're getting some of the feedback for our witnesses.

I know it's not easy. I've stopped the clock.

Ms. Sullivan, over to you.

[Kathleen Sullivan]

Sorry, could you repeat the question for me?

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Yes.

It's just on some of the recommendations for the flow of temporary foreign worker programs, and you mentioned the cap.

[Kathleen Sullivan]

One of the biggest things that could benefit us right now is increasing the cap. Across food and beverage manufacturing—unlike primary agriculture—your workforce cannot be more than 10% temporary foreign workers. Just increasing that cap by any amount would be helpful. We are suggesting 30%. Ideally, in a perfect world, during a crisis we wouldn't have any cap at all but we have suggested 30% might be something that could be tolerated by the federal government.

We're also suggesting that the federal government move for a defined period of time to a two-year LMIA, rather than a one-year LMIA, which would help to reduce paperwork on the part of companies, but also—and I think very importantly we've all realized—help reduce processing times and processing work for the government itself.

I think those two measures in and of themselves would be quite beneficial.

Another thing is really important. Somebody asked me once why we want to use temporary foreign workers. Except for seasonal jobs, we don't want to use temporary foreign workers. We want to welcome people into Canada to become permanent residents and do these jobs permanently and become parts of our community and our workplace family. We have to have, attached to any program we put in place, really clear and workable pathways to residency for any of these workers who come in.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Thank you.

Somebody mentioned housing, and I think it was Mr. MacGregor who talked about the importance of housing. Back home for me, they may not be your members but they are in the food-processing business and they are coming up with solutions to provide housing because there is just no choice.

Are some of your members working on similar solutions, or innovative solutions to provide housing, either to some of the temporary foreign workers or just Canadian employees?

[Kathleen Sullivan]

Yes, absolutely, there are some things that our members have done, and I'm sure there are more things as well.

First of all, as I said, the companies themselves are actually purchasing the housing units. They're purchasing entire apartment buildings or purchasing homes, multi-unit homes or single-family homes, that could be used for workers. We are also seeing companies, in order to overcome that barrier to getting to work, putting in place their own bus routes. I mentioned Maple Lodge Farms earlier. They put in place their own private busing system to be able to get their workers from their homes into the workplace. There's also a pilot currently going on in Ontario to try to work with the municipalities to understand how you sort of tweak infrastructure and some of those things in order to facilitate people getting to work.

There are absolutely things that people are trying. Ultimately, I think we're going to have to find models of industry or hubs of employers working together with municipalities and with provincial governments and federal governments to figure out how you address what I call infrastructure issues so that you can facilitate people getting to work.