Evidence of meeting #40 for Agriculture and Agri-Food in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was remission.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
John Nater Conservative Perth—Wellington, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Madame Govier, you kind of avoided answering the question earlier from my colleague, Ms. Rood.
The decision to include supply management wasn't obligatory. Supply management didn't have to be included in the remission order. Is that correct?
4:20 p.m.
Director General, International Trade Policy Division, Department of Finance
Yes, that's correct.
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
John Nater Conservative Perth—Wellington, ON
Was the decision made by someone? Was the decision made by the minister on the recommendation of the department or was that decision made by the minister on her own reasoning?
4:20 p.m.
Director General, International Trade Policy Division, Department of Finance
Ultimately, the minister is the one taking the decision and making the recommendation to the Governor in Council. That's how it comes into force. Ultimately, the decision is the minister's.
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
John Nater Conservative Perth—Wellington, ON
Did the department recommend that supply management be included?
4:20 p.m.
Director General, International Trade Policy Division, Department of Finance
This is what I do not feel very comfortable talking about. This is the decision-making process within government.
As I said, we provided advice on the different elements that could be included because it includes both tariffs as well as trade remedy duties. We provided advice on those and the potential implications.
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
John Nater Conservative Perth—Wellington, ON
Okay, you're not willing to give us the advice that you gave to the minister. I can accept that.
You mentioned earlier that you're not aware of the size of the market in Ukraine and their production capability. You rely on departments such as the Department of Agriculture and Agri-Food and perhaps CFIA to provide advice to you as a department.
I'd be curious to know what advice you received from the departments that made you comfortable going ahead with including supply management.
4:20 p.m.
Director General, International Trade Policy Division, Department of Finance
On the supply-managed goods, as I may have noted before, we were aware, from our free trade negotiations with Ukraine, that there was an interest in the chicken market. On the scope and the exact nature of the interest, we did not have a lot of details.
As I said, we did engage with Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada on that. They were aware of those same issues and raised them with us. Those were things that we took into consideration as we moved forward.
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
John Nater Conservative Perth—Wellington, ON
I would just note that there's always a great interest in our supply management sector beyond simply negotiations with Ukraine. I'd say there are many countries worldwide.... and I think many of our trading partners are probably watching very interestedly that at the first opportunity, our supply management industry was opened up.
Now, you've mentioned that you may not have the information on the size of the market, but I would be curious to know if the Department of Finance has done any studies on what the impact of avian influenza would have on Canada financially, were there to be a widespread outbreak within Canada.
Does the Department of Finance have any information on the economic impact that would have?
4:25 p.m.
Director General, International Trade Policy Division, Department of Finance
I believe that would be for the CFIA, which is going to be appearing after this.
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
John Nater Conservative Perth—Wellington, ON
I have a follow-up question, then. What is the size of the Canadian chicken market and its impact on the economy in Canada?
4:25 p.m.
Director General, International Trade Policy Division, Department of Finance
Do you mean the avian influenza?
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
John Nater Conservative Perth—Wellington, ON
No. In general, what's the benefit of the chicken industry in Canada for the economy?
4:25 p.m.
Director General, International Trade Policy Division, Department of Finance
Again, I think that would be for—
4:25 p.m.
Director General, International Trade Policy Division, Department of Finance
If you're interested in knowing whether I have that information now, I do not.
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
John Nater Conservative Perth—Wellington, ON
Perhaps you could follow up with us on the economic impact of the chicken market in Canada.
I ask because this is a big issue for a lot of farmers in a lot of communities across our country. When they see—even if it's just a crack, even if it's just one aspect being opened up in the supply management situation....
I would point out as well that you mentioned that as of this point, you're unsure of how much chicken may be imported in the future. There's nothing in this that would prevent a back-end loading of this situation, where a large amount is imported into Canada late in the period of the time immediately leading up to June 2023. That chicken will come into Canada, sit in freezers for a long time and have an impact on our domestic market.
I get the impression that you're relying on your partners in government and Agriculture and Agri-Food in particular. At the end of the day, this is a decision that is made by Finance. If you're making a decision with a relatively limited amount of information, I think it's concerning to a lot of farmers who may be paying attention.
I'll leave my time there. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative John Barlow
Thank you, Mr. Nater.
Now, our final questioner is Mr. Louis for five minutes, please.
4:25 p.m.
Liberal
Tim Louis Liberal Kitchener—Conestoga, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you to all of the witnesses. I really appreciate your being here for this conversation.
We are challenged, in that the data is coming in and it's still early stages for us to be having these conversations. You can feel people straining to answer the questions.
The way I see it, we're boiling it down to about three factors. First, Canada and other countries are supporting Ukraine with these remission orders. Secondly, we want to make sure that the economic impact on our supply management sector is minimal. From what I've heard so far, it appears to be. Thirdly, we want to make sure that the food that's being imported is safe.
Maybe I could ask both the Department of Finance and Foreign Affairs, within your jurisdiction—the food safety thing would be for the next panel—do you think that the agreement strikes that balance? Are the measures in place to monitor the data and to continue assessing?
4:25 p.m.
Director General, International Trade Policy Division, Department of Finance
I would say that I hope we have found the right balance. Clearly, we understand that there are concerns being raised here today and we have been mindful of those, and that's why we wanted to put a monitoring system in place that is looking at things quite carefully.
The overall purpose of the order was to provide benefit for Ukraine, so I think we can't lose sight of that, but as I said, it has to be balanced with what the impacts are here in Canada, and that's what the monitoring is intending to do.
4:25 p.m.
Liberal
4:25 p.m.
Director General, Market Access, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
Thanks for the question.
I think my colleague handled it perfectly well. I don't think I could add anything to that. I think that's exactly the right balance we're looking for.
4:25 p.m.
Liberal
Tim Louis Liberal Kitchener—Conestoga, ON
Also, on the tariff relief we're talking about, have we done this with other countries over the years? Have we done something similar with other countries in different times that you know of where we have some data?
