Evidence of meeting #47 for Agriculture and Agri-Food in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was suppliers.
A recording is available from Parliament.
8:25 p.m.
Liberal
Ryan Turnbull Liberal Whitby, ON
Ms. Robinson, how would you answer that? Are farmers getting fair value for their product?
8:25 p.m.
President, Canadian Federation of Agriculture
It's a very broad sector. There is lot of niche and a lot of variety within commodities. A good example would be dairy and butter, where we saw butter being sold below the cost of production this past year.
There are definitely farmers who are not getting that.
8:25 p.m.
Liberal
Ryan Turnbull Liberal Whitby, ON
Let me ask you in a slightly different way.
Is the consolidation within the retail industry a concern for you in terms of what farmers are getting as a fair price for their product?
8:25 p.m.
Liberal
Ryan Turnbull Liberal Whitby, ON
Can the current price increases that Canadians are experiencing at the grocery store be reduced to the increased input, transport and labour costs that we've heard about—and we acknowledge that those are all there—or is there an added amount of profit somewhere along the supply chain, i.e., perhaps not for farmers?
Would you suspect that there are some added profits in there along the supply chain, Ms. Robinson?
8:25 p.m.
President, Canadian Federation of Agriculture
I would say that all of the links in the chain have increased cost increases. In particular, I think of diesel prices in the trucking sector.
It's very difficult to answer that question. It goes back to the point Tyler made: We need more information to be able to answer that question accurately.
8:25 p.m.
Liberal
Ryan Turnbull Liberal Whitby, ON
Thank you.
Mr. McCann, would you like to speak to that? I think some of our retailers have vertical integration as well. They own multiple steps in the supply chain and, therefore, they're able to maximize profits and perhaps not be as transparent as they could be. As you mentioned, in the United States, they're compelled to give more data.
Is that part of the challenge here? Is it that we have both the long supply chains and the vertical integration for some of our retailers? What do you think?
8:25 p.m.
Managing Director, Canadian Agri-Food Policy Institute
Again, to the point that was just made, food is a very diverse system, so it depends, really, on the product and how integrated it is or isn't.
I think it's important to stress that profit in the food system is not a bad thing. Profit for farmers enables them to invest. Profit for truckers enables them to invest in potentially new and more energy-efficient equipment.
We need to understand that there need to be the right mechanisms in place to allow for everyone along the value chain to have a fair income to enable that, but also that there are the right forces in play to make sure it's not excessive.
8:25 p.m.
Liberal
Ryan Turnbull Liberal Whitby, ON
Please don't misinterpret me. I'm not saying that profit is necessarily a bad thing. It's only when it comes at the expense of the greater public good. I think that's where we need to draw the line.
What's interesting to me, though, is that there are profits along the supply chain.
Ms. Robinson, you spoke in your opening remarks about one link perhaps potentially shouldering a greater portion of the burden for those added costs that we're currently experiencing. Who were you referring to?
8:30 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Kody Blois
Mr. Turnbull, that was perfect. You're right on time.
We have Mr. Perron for two minutes, please—no more.
8:30 p.m.
Bloc
Yves Perron Bloc Berthier—Maskinongé, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Léger Bourgoin or Ms. Lefebvre, you said earlier that the code of conduct would not capture pricing, and yet the committee has clearly seen what a problem pricing is. That means the code of conduct needs to be the starting point, not the finish line. That's my take‑away.
How do we strengthen producers' position in the food supply chain, in the market?
8:30 p.m.
General Manager, Quebec Produce Growers Association
Similar to what Mr. Ross said earlier, we need to be careful about what we agree to because of confidentiality agreements. Let's just say that the goal is to improve relations between suppliers and the major grocery chains. During the negotiation process, I think everyone showed a lot of good faith as far as improving relations goes.
Something else worth mentioning is how high the expectations are. The code of conduct is a start. One way to reach the goal is to take a hard look, 18 to 24 months down the line, to see whether the discussions that led to the code of conduct had the desired effect. That's a crucial step in making sure that the code of conduct reaches the next level after that 18‑to‑24‑month period.
8:30 p.m.
Bloc
Yves Perron Bloc Berthier—Maskinongé, QC
Thank you very much.
Ms. Robinson, what should be done to strengthen producers' position in the food supply chain, in the market?
8:30 p.m.
President, Canadian Federation of Agriculture
How do we assert our position on the markets...?
8:30 p.m.
Bloc
Yves Perron Bloc Berthier—Maskinongé, QC
That's what I just asked Mr. Léger Bourgoin.
How do we give producers more bargaining power?
8:30 p.m.
Executive Director, Canadian Federation of Agriculture
I think there are a few critical elements.
One of them is certainly a point that was raised earlier: The code of conduct will not exist in isolation. The Competition Act and competition law need to be closely looked at as to whether there is sufficient enforcement capacity to really address consolidation in the retail space.
I also think that there's certainly a strong role for education and outreach to inform and to help producers understand the nature of supply agreements and what is confined within them, and to ensure there is greater understanding of what they are agreeing to at the time and how to empower them in negotiations.
8:30 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Kody Blois
Thank you, Mr. Perron.
Thank you, Ms. Robinson and Mr. Ross.
Mr. MacGregor, you have two minutes to finish us off.
8:30 p.m.
NDP
Alistair MacGregor NDP Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC
Thank you, Chair. I'll just ask one question.
Mr. McCann, you were saying in your opening remarks that inflation in food prices is regressive, that it of course hits the poorest in our society the hardest. I think you said that in the neighbourhood of 70% of those earning under $25,000 said that they were struggling.
I've certainly heard that from my own constituents out on Vancouver Island. It's a really emotional thing when you go in.... If the wages you command at your job are not keeping pace with those weekly increases that you're seeing, sometimes it's difficult, because you're having to make those difficult choices about which aisles you can go down and whether you can afford fresh food and go to your dairy and your meats. You might have to navigate the middle aisles much more.
You did say that policy solutions should be directed at those who need them. Of course, we do have a lot of programs and benefits in place to help people at those low incomes, but obviously for a lot of them that's still not enough. Do you want to elaborate a little more on what our committee could include in our report?
8:30 p.m.
Managing Director, Canadian Agri-Food Policy Institute
I think it's important to understand the limits that exist. When we think traditionally about this in the food context, we may think about what we can do along the supply chain and what tools are there, when that probably isn't the right place to try to look to help this. Again, probably something outside of the agriculture portfolio should look at finding sustainable, durable solutions that will offer effective and efficient support for those who need it.
Keep in mind that we went from one in eight Canadian households facing food insecurity to one in six. That change is not just an issue of food insecurity. Those are households that are having a hard time paying rent and other costs. The tools that are available to government really are about how to ensure that the right supports are in place, so that those who cannot make ends meet have the supports from government so that they can.
It's always interesting to look at the amount of support offered to food banks. That's a last line of defence. It should be a last line of defence. There are other more effective and more proactive tools available that can be used to address the income challenge at the heart of that.
Again, that's not a food insecurity issue. Ultimately, that is an income issue.
8:35 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Kody Blois
Thank you, Mr. McCann. Thank you, Mr. MacGregor.
Colleagues, that finishes our second panel.
On behalf of all of you, let me say thank you to our witnesses for their work in the agriculture space and for taking the time to be here today to provide testimony.
Thank you all for your contribution today.
8:35 p.m.
Conservative
John Barlow Conservative Foothills, AB
I just want to say thank you, while she's here, to Ms. Robinson.
I know your term as the chair of the Canadian Federation of Agriculture is wrapping up and certainly we've appreciated it. I'm speaking for all of us here. I just want to say thank you for everything you've done and good luck.
8:35 p.m.
Some hon. members
Hear, hear!
8:35 p.m.
Conservative
John Barlow Conservative Foothills, AB
On the downside of that, Mr. Chair, with these late-night committee meetings, we are going to be in committee when she has her last official business at her reception in Ottawa on March 6. Perhaps we can have a discussion amongst ourselves to maybe end early that night, so we can go and give her a proper send-off.