Agriculture Committee on March 8th, 2023

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

We're at time, but in trying to make sure that we hear from that witness, I have no problem giving some discretion.

Mr. La Flèche, if you would like to, you may answer the question.

[Eric La Flèche]

Our revenues have gone up. Expenses have gone up. Margins have not gone up. They've been stable for a long time. Food margins have actually declined. Those are facts.

We work extremely hard—all our teams do—to provide value to our customers every day in all of our banners. We have very competitive prices, very compelling promotions and a full range of private label products.

Again, we work really hard to deliver value to our customers. Those are just the facts.

[Leah Taylor Roy, Liberal, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

Thank you, Ms. Taylor Roy.

Over to you, Mr. Perron, for two and a half minutes.

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Thank you.

Gentlemen, I'm going to follow up on something that was said earlier.

I want to reiterate the call for the grocery chain heads to provide all the figures they can to the committee with the specific breakdowns. We will handle them with due diligence, possibly under an agreement with the Law Clerk of the House. We'd like to believe what you're saying about profit margins, but when we look at the numbers—when the public looks at the numbers—what we see are significantly higher profits, even higher than before the pandemic.

Grocery store food prices have gone up 11%, while overall inflation stands at 6%, so something is going on in the grocery sector, something we aren't seeing. As I said earlier, we aren't accusing you of anything. We're just looking for information.

My other point is this. You all said that you were supportive of the code of conduct, and I told you that I was worried it would be merely symbolic. Would you all be just as supportive of reviewing the code a year in? Please keep your answer short. A yes or no will do.

[Galen G. Weston]

I am happy to answer.

We are continuing to work on that code of conduct, as I've mentioned before. The idea is to create the right form of transparency and fairness on all sides, and so—

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

I don't mean to be impolite, Mr. Weston, but I have very little time. Would you agree to review the code at the one-year mark?

[Galen G. Weston]

Let's get to the code first, and then we can decide how to evaluate it.

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Weston.

Mr. La Flèche, are you open to the idea of reviewing the code a year into its implementation?

[Eric La Flèche]

I think the plan is to see how things go once the code is implemented, and that will take some time. Also, since the industry players are the ones who will be overseeing the code, they will have to assess how things are going with that relationship and with the code. It's something that will definitely happen.

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Thank you, Mr. La Flèche.

Earlier, Mr. Weston, you said the industry wasn't an oligopoly. However, five companies control 80% of the market. To me, an outsider, that seems like an oligopoly. I may be wrong, so correct me if I am.

How do you account for what Ms. Taylor Roy was saying about all the grocery stores reducing employee pay at the same time?

As I said, I'd like to believe you, but it looks like an oligopoly to someone on the outside.

[Galen G. Weston]

On the question on pandemic pay, we introduced pandemic pay during a period of extremely abnormal conditions for frontline workers in grocery stores. It was at our encouragement and it was our decision to bring that forward. No parliament asked us to do it. No industry code of conduct asked us to do it. We made that decision because we felt that it was the right thing to do.

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

I realize that, Mr. Weston, but here's the question. How do you explain the fact that all the grocery stores put an end to the hero pay at the same time if you didn't speak to one another? The public wants to know. In people's minds, there's no way that you don't talk to one another.

[Galen G. Weston]

I wasn't there at that time, but I certainly know that we made that decision independently, and that was the right decision at that time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

We're at time, Monsieur Perron. I will allow Mr. Medline or Mr. La Flèche to respond to your question if you like. Then we'll move on to the NDP.

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

I can't hear what's being said. The sound coming through my headset is really low. I'm not sure whether the interpreter is too far from the mike.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

I'll continue speaking in English and perhaps those involved in the translation....

Can you hear me better now, Mr. Perron?

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

That's better. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

Okay.

Mr. Medline, would you like to respond quickly, and Mr. La Flèche?

[Michael Medline]

I'm proud that we paid hero pay. We weren't asked to. Some of the other retailers mentioned in this room that you want to hear from did not pay it. Maybe you should ask them.

We said that we would keep it in as long as there were lockdowns and that we would bring it back if regions locked down. After that, regions did lock down and we kept paying hero pay, so I'm proud of that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

Mr. La Flèche, would you like to answer?

[Eric La Flèche]

When the economy reopened, we eliminated the hero pay. The Canadian market is highly competitive, so we had to be on equal footing with our competitors in the sector and in other sectors.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

Thank you very much.

Thank you, Mr. Perron.

Mr. Singh, you have up to two and a half minutes.

[Jagmeet Singh, NDP, Burnaby South, BC]

Mr. Chair, before I go into my questions, I wanted to propose a unanimous consent motion to extend the time to hear from the witnesses to the completion of our time in this committee, and perhaps the work of committee can go to another day. Can I put that motion forward for unanimous consent?

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

You can certainly bring it forward. I do know this committee has other work that we were intending.... I know you're not a permanent member, but I'll leave it to other committee members to decide.