Agriculture Committee on April 24th, 2023

[Tom Rosser]

I'm not sure I have a lot to add to what's been said, other than I think, as it has been described in the conversation today, they're sensitive creatures. It stands to reason that it doesn't take a big change in environmental conditions to have a significant impact on populations. Some years are better than others.

I think there are many factors at play, but clearly, as the environment moves to more extremes, it won't be good for bee health.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

To Mr. Berg and Mr. Hamilton on that—and you can address the first question about the cause of the mortality—what I'm hearing from both of you is that now is a pretty important time to make sure that something is being done to restore bee health and numbers across the country.

Is that fair, and is there any quick element on mortality?

[Jake Berg]

Yes, we need to restore the numbers across the country for various reasons. Pollination of fruit crops across the country is a huge issue.

Without being a researcher, I believe part of what's happening right now is probably varroa control. Again, I'm not a researcher and I don't want to really comment on that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

Is there anything further on this, Mr. Hamilton?

[John C. Hamilton]

As far as trying to get more bees to blueberries is concerned, I'd love to be able to truck 50 semi-trailer loads of bees from Alberta, Saskatchewan and Manitoba to Nova Scotia, and then get them back in time for honey crop season, but we'd have to figure that out.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

I want to take you back to 1987. Mr. Barlow was leading you on this line of questioning.

Part of the impetus—I wasn't around then—around this decision was that the varroa mite was not widespread in Canada, but it might have been in the United States. That was part of the protection in terms of trying to make sure that the diseases or different elements that existed outside the boundaries didn't find their way in.

Am I correct in saying that, Mr. Hamilton?

[John C. Hamilton]

Yes, it was to slow the spread. Surprisingly, in Nova Scotia, it was never actually determined, but it was believed that a hobbyist brought two hives into the metro area. They got them from New Brunswick, brought them in and plunked them down, and the first positive varroa mites were found in metro Halifax. They spread from there.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

I want to go to you and Mr. Berg on this.

What is the profile on Canadian bees in relation to varroa mites? Is it vastly different than what the rates of infection would be in the United States right now, or is there a lot of similarity between the two bee populations as they relate to either varroa mites or some of the other elements that we are trying to avoid, as you guys mentioned earlier?

This is for Mr. Hamilton and Mr. Berg.

[John C. Hamilton]

As far as I'm concerned, no. We're very similar.

[Jake Berg]

I think the levels of the infestations are very similar. I think one of the concerns that was stated in the 2014 risk assessment was on the Apivar-resistant forms of varroa that were in the U.S. but were not in Canada at that time, so I think Mr. Hamilton is right: It is probably time for a new risk assessment.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

Mr. Berg, I've heard you loud and clear on the importance of domestic production. Frankly, Mr. Hamilton, you said that it could be both at the same time.

Is the Canadian Honey Council position, Mr. Berg, that obviously we have to focus on domestic production and the building up of the bee capacity, but that importation, as long as there's a reasonable protocol in place, could be allowed at the same time?

I haven't heard what the position is of your council. I know that domestic production is important. Can both be achieved at the same time?

[Jake Berg]

Yes, absolutely, both are needed. Domestic production should be ramped up, and it has its place. Although in years like 2022, when there were widespread bee losses across the country, in most years or more commonly we'll have one area of the country that has a higher loss than normal. In those years, possibly domestic production could be more of a filler to fill that gap. If the west has a good winter but the east doesn't, we then could provide some bees to the east.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

Queen bees are allowed in, but it's just the regular packaged bees that we're talking about in terms of the importation from the United States. We mentioned Chile, New Zealand and Australia. Mr. Rosser, I think you mentioned Italy.

What is the profile of disease in those countries? I don't know. I ask this question honestly: Are there varroa mites in these countries of importation? Is it at a lower rate? Is that what has allowed for the acceptable risk?

That's for you, Mr. Rosser, if you know it, or for our industry folks. I would welcome hearing about that.

[Tom Rosser]

I'd just very quickly say that I think the risk profile will look at a variety of different diseases. In the case of the U.S. profile that was just referenced, I think there were four individual diseases identified in that risk assessment, but that would certainly grow, and other risks would be considered in due course before imported bees were allowed from a new destination.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

Mr. Hamilton, is there anything you want to add, or Mr. Berg?

I'm probably testing the limits of my good colleagues here.

We'll go to you, Mr. Hamilton.

[John C. Hamilton]

Am I wrong in stating that we're accepting packages from Ukraine?

[Jake Berg]

We are acknowledging accepting packages from Ukraine.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

Okay. Thank you, colleagues. That helps to satisfy some of the concerns I had.

Mr. Lehoux, I know that you want to move some committee business. Let me first thank our witnesses.

Thank you, Mr. Rosser, for coming in and fielding and being very generous with your time.

Mr. Berg, thank you for making the trip all the way in from Saskatchewan and for your work on the Honey Bee Council.

Mr. Hamilton, it's great to see a fellow Nova Scotian. Certainly, Oxford Frozen Foods is something we're proud of back home. On behalf of my colleagues, thank you for being here and sharing some of your insights

Mr. Lehoux, you wanted to move something. You've given notice. Why don't we move that motion and deal with it now?

[Richard Lehoux, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I know it's Monday night and everyone is anxious for the meeting to end.

I had moved a motion, and I imagine everyone has received it. Madam Clerk sent it to all my colleagues. If you don't have any objection, I won't read the whole thing. However, if you want, I will read it.

I would like us to very rapidly take a position on the closing of the Olymel plant in my riding, in Vallée-Jonction, Quebec, which has also had a very major impact on pork producers in Ontario.

The motion I made is for a two-hour study. The first hour would be reserved for some of the witnesses I have suggested, and the other hour, which would also be very important, would be reserved for Quebec and Ontario pork producers and the Canadian Pork Council.

It would be useful for us to decide on this motion as rapidly as possible in order to hear these people and ultimately make recommendations and submit a report, which could be very brief. I think it is essential that we make a decision this evening on doing this study. This is quite an important subject.

My colleagues may have questions about this.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

I will turn it over to Mr. Drouin.

I recognize that it's an important subject. I know that we have determined a committee schedule, but of course I'm always in the hands of the majority and the will of the committee. We can deviate, but I do want to recognize that we have some work ahead of us in the days ahead.

Mr. Drouin, you wanted to speak to this motion.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to salute my colleague, Mr. Lehoux. I know it is not easy to lose industry players in his community. I just wanted to point out that the members of the subcommittee have already met and Mr. Turnbull has decided on a schedule. I think it would be very difficult to make recommendations in one two-hour meeting. The company is definitely going to close its doors in December and that decision is a major blow to the community. I am going to let Mr. Lehoux make a choice as far as the meeting goes.

We could meet as quickly as possible, but we can't do a report to the House, because it is impossible to decide all the important points in a single meeting. If it comes down to holding more meetings, I would like to point out that we have a schedule to follow and that if the motion is adopted, it will have to be incorporated into the schedule, given that we had already determined what was to be done.

I would like to mention that the plant isn't closing its doors tomorrow morning; it will be in December, and it has been announced publicly. The Quebec government is already included in the process. From what I know, Olymel has not made any official request for the federal government to get involved, in any way.

I know my colleague Mr. Lehoux wants to speak.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

I'm going to Mr. MacGregor; I see his hand up. Then I'll go to Mr. Barlow and back to Mr. Lehoux, if necessary.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

I understand how important this is to the local community.

I don't know if we can issue a report, but I'm just wondering if Mr. Lehoux will maybe consider that this committee authorize the chair to write a letter to the minister based on what we've heard and express our concern.

If we're going to do a report and, I assume, include recommendations, we may need to expand it, and as Mr. Lehoux knows, our calendar is pretty full these days.

That's just one suggestion for consideration.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

Let's go to Mr. Barlow.

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

Thanks, Mr. Chair.

I appreciate the committee's taking the time to discuss this for Mr. Lehoux, as I'm sure I would be in a similar position if Cargill decided to close the meat processing plant in High River. It would be pretty devastating not only to my constituency but also, obviously, to the industry.

I feel this is important, as is how we decide to work this into our calendar. I certainly understand that the committee has important issues to discuss, but I think we also have to be nimble when issues arise that are unexpected, and this is certainly unexpected.

I know it sounds like the facility is not going to close until the fall or winter; however, we had the Ontario Pork Producers in my office today, as a matter of fact, and they're very concerned now with the lack of processing capacity and how they're going to resolve this situation. I know it doesn't close until the fall, but that only gives them a few months to try to find different locations or different processors for tens of thousands of animals, and that is a problem.

Right now they're going to be trying to get into Iowa and Idaho, but if something were to happen at the border or if production in the United States goes up, they lose that capacity to move south of the border and they have to go somewhere else. They're also worried, with the new electronic logs, about how far they can truck the hogs, because they do not want to deal with unloading and loading.

Again, I know it sounds like it's a long way off, but there are some big issues that need to be addressed. I understand Mr. Drouin's point that this is a private company, but I believe it is our job as this committee to hear our stakeholders' fears and concerns and some of the issues that they are facing. If Mr. MacGregor has a good suggestion as well, if Mr. Lehoux is willing to do that, it might make us a little bit more time-sensitive.

I guess we have an option here to do one day. I think we can fit that into our schedule and address what I think is an important issue for the people whom we are here to represent, our agriculture and agri-food stakeholders. It could be a very significant issue that has ripple effects across Quebec and Ontario and perhaps into Manitoba if processing capacity becomes more of an issue.