Agriculture Committee on June 5th, 2023

[Guylain Charron, Agricultural Research and Policy Advisor, Agronomy, Union des producteurs agricoles]

Just as the pork sector people said earlier, we need longer-term investments to improve the animal health issue. There also has to be predictability and the possibility to bring other sectors together if the investments are made. That's the first point to consider.

Second, it's still important that the industry and government agencies work together so that each party clearly understands the realities of the others.

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Don't you have a more specific recommendation for us?

[Guylain Charron]

For the moment, I'd say that mainly concerns the specialized sectors that work more directly with government organizations. We're here in support of our groups.

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Doyon and Mr. Charron.

Mr. Bowman, I know you created the certification associated with the verified beef production plus program, the VBP+ program.

Would you please tell us how that can be useful?

Beef producers have told this committee many times that they want to withdraw the bovine spongiform encephalopathy standard so they can increase their productivity. Is that feasible in a context in which we're trying to prevent other diseases?

[Paul Doyon]

We're definitely wondering how to keep our country biosecure in the context of our trade agreements with other countries. It's always a bit complicated, but, as I said earlier, when it comes to matters of health, we should overlook trade issues and pool all our efforts.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

Thank you very much, Mr. Doyon and Mr. Perron.

Mr. Johns, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Thank you so much.

Thank you, witnesses, for your important testimony.

I'm going to go back to May 3, 2023, and the testimony to the committee from Dr. Mary Jane Ireland, Canada's chief veterinary officer. She explained that veterinarians play an important role in ensuring animal, environmental and human health.

I think that actually one of the most important people in my life was my late uncle, Larry Bryant. He was a veterinarian. He worked in Spruce View, just outside of Red Deer, and Nobleford, just outside of Lethbridge. He was tireless in the number of hours he put in and the compassion and care he brought to his field, to the animals, and especially to the farmers by always being there. He graduated back in 1952 from UBC, and then later went to Guelph to finish up his doctorate.

This just gives me a chance also to thank all veterinarians for the important work they do and the sacrifices they make here in Canada. I think we owe them a ton of gratitude.

It will be four years at the end of June since we lost my Uncle Larry. It's nice to be able to honour him. My late uncle was just an incredible pillar in our family. He really showed us compassion and thoughtfulness.

I'm going to go to you, Mr. Lawson.

Dr. Ireland also noted that Canada, like many countries, is experiencing a shortage of veterinarians in both private practice and public health units. In its 2020 report on this subject, the Canadian Veterinary Medical Association recommended an annual growth of 3.5% to 4% in veterinarians.

Can you talk about what, in your opinion, the causes of the shortage are? I know you started down this thread, and I want to continue this conversation and pose some questions to you.

[Dr. Trevor Lawson]

I can, certainly. I'd be happy to.

I think there are many factors. Without question, if we think back over the last 25 years, we've had a population expansion and economic expansion in Canada. However, our veterinary colleges have remained essentially at the status quo in terms of the number of seats we've been graduating on an annual basis. As a result, we've not really been able to get ahead of the curve in terms of meeting the new demand.

We did the workforce study in 2020, which showed that there was a structural deficit in the number of new veterinarians we were going to be graduating. What we didn't account for at that time, obviously, was a global pandemic. It clearly has exacerbated the situation. What we are seeing now, as we're turning out the same number of new graduate veterinarians, is that we're just treading water or losing ground on an annual basis.

This becomes a real challenge. It creates work places for veterinarians, whether they're in small rural practices or they serve in food animal or companion animal production or in any other sector. It's much more challenging, I think, to find the career as rewarding as it once was—as you described it being for your uncle. That's certainly something that hits home for me.

I think in the big picture we understand that the structural deficit exists. It's going to exist over the course of the next 10 years at a minimum. We have an opportunity to take steps to increase funding to veterinary colleges to increase the number of seats to produce homegrown Canadian veterinarians. We have an opportunity to discuss new admissions requirements for veterinary schools and how we can serve all of society in a better way. That's in the companion animal sector, but also the food animal sector, which is something that is near and dear to my heart. It's something that touches close to home.

I understand how very stretched the rural regions in Canada are and have been for some time. I think Dr. Rosengren can certainly speak to that as well. That's not a new phenomenon. It's something we've been very aware of for the last 25 years.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

We need to remove barriers. Obviously as New Democrats we pushed hard to stop the interest on student loans and to increase grants to people who are studying. I know that's important.

Given that veterinary training and accreditation are provincial competencies, can you speak about the role the federal government can play in addressing the shortage, in addition to what I just mentioned?

[Dr. Trevor Lawson]

One of the pathways we've been exploring most closely is the partnership we have developed with Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada to try to remove any potential barriers. It is very important that the eligible candidates find a pathway that can most easily bring them to Canada if they choose to be here. That is going to be an ongoing work stream for us over the next year or so. We'll continue to have dialogue. I think we've made good progress in that regard.

I think hiring internationally is quite a challenge for just about any company or business. Veterinary medicine has the added layer of being a regulated profession that comes with very high standards. We have to be aware of that. I think there are ways in which we can work through that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

We'll leave it at that, gentlemen.

Thank you.

Mr. Lehoux, you have the floor for four minutes.

[Richard Lehoux, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thanks to the witnesses for being here today.

Mr. Doyon, you discussed the regulations respecting the handling of animals in your opening statement. We know that the more you handle animals and transport them over long distances, the more you risk having them contract various diseases. In the present circumstances, animals will have to be transported over longer distances: cattle, since slaughterhouses are increasingly removed from Quebec, and pigs, considering the announced closure of certain slaughterhouses in the region.

Should we reorient or reduce regulations on the handling of animals?

If you had a recommendation to make to the committee, Mr. Doyon, what would it be?

[Paul Doyon]

First of all, we should rely on the animal health and welfare experts. We have to choose the model, the procedure that will present the least possible risk for the animals. Earlier some people said it wasn't good to unload animals in areas where they could be contaminated. If it's preferable to transport them over longer distances, that's what we'll do. However, if it's preferable to take breaks and to take them to certain places, we'll adopt that solution. It's the experts who will select the most appropriate method.

[Richard Lehoux, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

Thank you.

We should, of course, rely on the experts. I entirely agree with you. However, who will make the decision? That's a major problem now.

Do you have a specific recommendation to make?

[Paul Doyon]

Sometimes you have to be careful when it comes to regulations. You have to consider whether that's the best way to achieve the desired objective.

[Richard Lehoux, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Doyon and Mr. Barlow.

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Lehoux.

Gord, I'm glad that your uncle was a veterinarian.

We are not very supportive of Bill C-275, not having the public go on protesting on farms to protect their biosecurity.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

I'm going to stop you, Mr. Barlow. I'll stop the clock. There was an issue with your microphone. It wasn't on. I don't know why, but it is now.

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

Okay.

To Mr. Bowman, or Leigh for that matter, we heard from CFIA last week, when they were talking about avian influenza, that CFIA is not prepared to handle multiple outbreaks of an animal-borne virus at the same time, whether that's avian flu, foot-and-mouth disease or African swine fever. What is your opinion on that and the preparedness of CFIA to handle one pandemic, let alone if two outbreaks were to happen at the same time?

[Matt Bowman]

Back at our annual meeting, we had a representative from CFIA present to us. They said that dealing with avian influenza had been all they wanted to handle at that point in time. If there were another outbreak that was to happen, they would be under duress trying to cover all the bases of another outbreak.

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

Now, to go from CFIA to CBSA, what more can border services do to understand the urgency and be more prepared for, again, an outbreak or the spread of an animal-borne virus?

[Matt Bowman]

My suggestion would be zero tolerance, which they're at now, but the fines need to be more forceful. I look to Australia, where it's nothing to have a $100,000 fine for having some sausage in your suitcase. You get a few of those fines out there and that certainly deters people from thinking they could sneak some stuff in.

To maintain the zero-tolerance policy and have some severe penalties for breaking the law, that's where they need to be.

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

Thank you, Mr. Barlow, and thank you, Mr. Bowman.

We'll now turn to Ms. Khalid for up to four minutes.