Agriculture Committee on June 12th, 2023

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Webber, I think you've mentioned that it just takes a check mark in a box for the U.S. to recognize Canada's system. I've been around this place for a long time. Well, it's not that long, but I've certainly worked with government for a long time, and I know it's never as simple as just a check mark.

Do you understand the U.S. process to ensuring that we do get the recognition and the reciprocity? I think that's the whole point, or part of it anyway. It's an important criteria for us to support this bill. I think that's what the agriculture community was asking for, because of the unfair treatment they were getting down south.

Do you have any advice for this committee in terms of who we may invite to get assurance that we will get this recognition down south? Maybe former colleagues or...?

[Fred Webber]

I'm a little hesitant to name names in this forum. I would much rather get back to you, perhaps.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

We'll summon you—just kidding.

[Fred Webber]

As you look at my age—and I'm retired—you can imagine that lots of the senior public servants within PAC are people I know very well. One of them rose to a level just below the secretary. It is an administrative decision. I would suggest to you that you could reach out to any senior agricultural person in agriculture, and you'd get that same reassurance.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Thank you so much.

Mr. Woods, you've certainly talked about the fact that exporters to the U.S. have to, in some circumstances, double the bond. Can you talk to me about what that means for businesses in Canada when you have to essentially guarantee double of what you're selling down south, and the impact on cash flow?

[Quinton Woods]

The reality is that you're already in a claim position, because you haven't been paid. Then, for the duration of the claim, you have to post a bond for double the value of your claim. If a claim is $500,000, you have to post a million dollars. If it's a million dollars, you have to post two million dollars, which then further takes that cash from your cash flow.

I would go as far as to bet that it would be almost impossible for most growers, most marketers and most packers to post that bond in that situation in the current environment. Growers are being forced with high expenses and our profit margins are not brisk by any means. I would say that on cash flow it would be very hard to post that bond.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Okay.

Obviously, we've talked about the objective of this bill, and we've talked about the supplier relationship. Do you see any scenarios where retailers could be in a supplier position defined by law? For instance, many small businesses buy supplies from Costco. Would that allow them to be in a supplier position?

[Quinton Woods]

I think the reality is that in that position the retailer is the point of sale. They're getting their payment at the cashier. I don't see how that would put them in a position to make a claim on a restaurant, a wholesaler, a job or by any means. There could be certain situations in which a retailer could become a supplier. If a large retail distribution centre is providing an independent retailer with vegetables, they most definitely could become a supplier—rightfully so, but those situations are probably very few and far between.

In reality, it is our expectation, as Fruit and Vegetable Growers of Canada, that all produce sellers along the supply chain should be protected under this legislation. If they happen to be a supplier, they should be protected—and rightfully so.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

From your understanding in reading this particular bill, growers and greenhouse growers would be protected under Bill C-280.

[Quinton Woods]

Absolutely. All produce fruit and vegetable growers across this country, including greenhouse growers, would be included in that legislation.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Thank you so much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

We'll now go to Monsieur Perron.

Mr. Perron, the floor is yours for two and a half minutes.

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Ms. Lee, when I asked the people from Quebec earlier, they were unanimous about the fact that growers needed this bill

Is the rest of Canada also unanimous about the need for rapid action? Do all the growers want to see Bill C‑280 passed?

[Dr. Rebecca Lee]

Definitely.

The situation is the same in all the provinces. We've also received letters from every province. Growers were talking about it at all the meetings we attended, and at our annual meetings. They definitely need this act.

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Earlier on, the problems being experienced by the growers were raised. Some were no longer planting their fields and others decided to grow something other than fruit and vegetables. They were transitioning to field crops because of the lower risk.

Have you heard any testimony about this? Statistically speaking, do you know whether the number of produce growers is declining across Canada?

[Dr. Rebecca Lee]

Unfortunately, we don't have the stats on that. However, there are a number of reasons why growers could leave, and there is a lot of uncertainty in the sector, from getting the labour they need to getting the inputs they need to be able to make sure that they are able to sell their product, and all of their product.

We have seen stats on food loss at the farm level. All of those inputs they are not able to get, or people do the harvest, influence the amount of product they end up being able to sell. If they don't have the certainty of being able to get paid, it's just one more aspect they have to worry about.

We can start talking about mental health. That's a whole different story, but it definitely influences there as well.

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Mr. Currie, would you like to comment on that?

[Catherine Lefebvre]

Excuse me.

Were you asking, me, Mr. Perron?

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

I was asking Mr. Currie.

[Keith Currie]

Could you repeat the question? They didn't interpret it.

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

I was asking you whether you wanted to add something about the problems being experienced by growers and the fact that they were transitioning to field crops.

[Keith Currie]

No, I think Rebecca covered it quite nicely. This is an important bill. We need this bill.

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Okay.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

Mr. MacGregor, take us home for two and a half minutes.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I'll save my last question for the fruit and vegetable growers.

I want to read from the government response to our recommendations. I want to note that our recommendations have had all-party support, so that includes Liberal members of Parliament. They have been unanimous. I think our committee's frustration has been with the government. I want to acknowledge that, while legislators, we have been doing our work to try to get this. Our frustration has been with the government.

I want to read a quote. In that response, the government stated:

To date, there has been insufficient evidence provided to support changes to the insolvency legislative framework. Insolvency losses within the Canadian fresh produce sector are small, with total losses to all creditors in fresh produce insolvencies making up less than 0.1% of total sales in recent years.

I'll open the floor to you, because I think this is the crux of the matter of why we're here, depending on a private member's bill.

What is your response to that government response to a clear recommendation?