Agriculture Committee on June 12th, 2023

[Scot Davidson, Conservative, York—Simcoe, ON]

No, it's for all fresh produce. You know, it was asked.... The bill's here. I know you're going to be doing a line by line on this committee. This is for fresh fruit and vegetable growers.

[Warren Steinley, Conservative, Regina—Lewvan, SK]

Thanks.

For some of the people watching the agriculture committee.... As you said, you're a voracious reader of our reports, so I'm sure there are a lot of people who are watching the agriculture committee at this hour as well. To put it in context for agriculture in Saskatchewan, if you unload a truckload of cattle and your buyer ends up not paying you for them, you can still go back and get those cattle back. It's the same if you drop off a load of grain or a semi load of canola. I think what we have to make people aware of is that—you're right—once the lettuce is out of the field and off the truck, you have a week or so to make that sale. If you make that sale and that money doesn't come into your pocket, there's no other way to replace that. I think that's the picture I want to paint for people who might ask why we're dealing with this at this time. It's because there isn't that certainty, to go back to my earlier comments.

To add on that, that's where I would say, when we're dealing with important issues in the agriculture committee—just to make people aware who are watching—that's why we needed something like this. You said earlier that the Liberals had committed to this in 2015. Our friends in the NDP committed to this in their 2015 platform. That was eight years ago, so I think this is the time we can get this done. Your bringing it forward as a private member's bill was the best option for us, as the opposition, to push for that.

Could you give a couple of comments around that?

[Scot Davidson, Conservative, York—Simcoe, ON]

Again, a carrot is not the same as a cow. Blueberries are not the same as a cow. That's why this sector.... A niche sector in farming is our fresh fruit and vegetable growers. We take this whole sector for granted. We go in the store to buy our fresh produce. We go to the farmer's market to pick up our produce. It's always there. This is why this industry is looking for this security, and it's why it's so important.

[Warren Steinley, Conservative, Regina—Lewvan, SK]

I guess I'll end with this.

You mentioned in your opening comments that three-quarters of our fresh produce is imported. In a country like Canada, where we have so many arable acres and the opportunity to produce our own food, we do have to make some changes so that this opportunity stays in Canada and so that we can have more people who are going to produce food so we aren't reliant on other countries.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

Answer in about 10 or 15 seconds, please, Mr. Davidson. I know you can do that.

[Scot Davidson, Conservative, York—Simcoe, ON]

Mr. Chair, with the gavel, the change starts now.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

There we go.

Mr. Turnbull, I'll turn the floor over to you.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

I don't know how you follow that. That was almost borderline weird.

I've never seen a man with a carrot in a committee before, but you do a fine job, Mr. Davidson.

Honestly, I really appreciate your being here tonight. I appreciate the efforts you've made towards drafting this bill. I think you're using your private member's bill spot to do something good for the farmers in your community, which I think is a great thing. I drove through Holland Marsh on the weekend when I went up to see my mom for her 80th birthday, and every time I pass through there, I think of how beautiful it is to see that black earth and how much grows there. It's a beautiful place—it really is—and we need to preserve it, so I do appreciate your efforts here.

There's a part of me that wants to take this back and say, “Okay, this is a farmer, a fruit and vegetable grower, who's going through a bad situation—essentially, having to file for bankruptcy and go through insolvency.” Essentially, the intention of this bill, if I'm not mistaken, is to make that bad situation just a little bit better. Is that right?

[Scot Davidson, Conservative, York—Simcoe, ON]

Yes, for sure. I'm sorry—I missed that.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

Essentially, this is a bill that makes the bad situation the farmer is going through, which is essentially bankruptcy and insolvency, just a little bit better for them.

[Scot Davidson, Conservative, York—Simcoe, ON]

Yes, a hundred per cent.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

Essentially, they're able to cash in on the value of their produce to pay off the creditors that are standing in line waiting for liquidation of all the assets they have. Is that right?

[Scot Davidson, Conservative, York—Simcoe, ON]

I wouldn't call it “cash in”. They're getting paid for all their hard work and the days and nights they've had out in the field.

Let's take a medium-sized farm for example. Whether you want to call it big or little.... We can take the Leamington case. If a smaller farmer in my riding doesn't get paid.... With the way inflation is now, when I talk big numbers like $2 million, it's not a lot of money. Everyone at the table knows that. Remember, that farmer is also responsible for fertilizer, the corrugate and the fuel. There's a whole supply chain situation that goes on with that farmer and, if he doesn't get paid, none of those other people get paid.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

Essentially, the way I read the bill, though, is that instead of the produce and the sale of that produce being way down the line—in other words not being able to be used effectively to pay off creditors—it essentially puts it at superpriority status right at the front, so they can sell that produce and use the proceeds from that to pay off some of—

[Scot Davidson, Conservative, York—Simcoe, ON]

Yes, they become a secured creditor or preferred creditor. You can call it superpriority, yes.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

That sounds great. I can get behind that. Why should they experience a loss on top of already having to go through bankruptcy and not being able to utilize the produce they worked so hard to produce? It will help make that bad situation just a little bit better.

Am I getting it correctly?

[Scot Davidson, Conservative, York—Simcoe, ON]

In very general terms, yes, they become a secured creditor.

As I alluded to before, if they sell $10,000 worth of produce and they don't get paid, that doesn't necessarily mean they're going to get $10,000 back either. It depends what's in that company, but they are going to get priority over someone else.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

Right.

What I like about this is that it's sort of similar to other things we've seen in our Parliament where we've been able to work together across party lines to ensure that creditors in the insolvency process are fair, like for pensioners, for example. We worked on another bill together, which was really great to see. This seems to be another one of those where there's unanimous support. That's a really good sign.

Just for interest's sake, Mr. Davidson, what does the Ontario Fruit and Vegetable Growers' Association have to say about this bill? Is it supportive of it?

[Scot Davidson, Conservative, York—Simcoe, ON]

It's very supportive. I think you're going to hear from them.

Ryan, I know you are, and I am, a big believer of listening to the “boots on the ground” people. I think they are here tonight—various witnesses—so you're going to be able to hear right from them.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

That's great.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

I'm sorry, Mr. Turnbull. We're actually at time. There are maybe 10 seconds left.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

No problem. Thanks, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

We'll have to leave it at that.

Mr. Perron, You have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr Chair.

Mr. Davidson, you were saying that living conditions for fruit and vegetable growers are already difficult. I recently had the privilege of attending an evening organized by the Quebec Produce Growers Association. People were very happy about getting together for dinner and a pleasant evening. However, it ended fairly soon, because they headed home to get to bed early.

Do you know why? It's because the temperature had dropped to ‑4 Celsius that evening. Most of the people there had been up most of the night, some sleeping for a couple of hours and others not at all. That's because they were out there hosing down their crops in an attempt to save at least some of their crops. Many of the people there told me that they had lost everything and that they would have to replant. But they came anyway. That's what I call resilience.

When we talk about climate change, we're also talking about water management, which is going to become a major problem. We are all aware of the fact that the soil has dried out because of global warming. It's become obvious in our forests and everywhere else. These people are exposed to it all the time, one hundred per cent. That's why I was happy to hear you say earlier that the sector deserves security. Hats off to you for that.

There's something I'd like to emphasize, and that is that there are growers, but also wholesalers. Many small growers go through wholesalers to sell their produce. The bottom line is that protecting our growers is something that needs to be studied more thoroughly. If the act allows the wholesalers who sold the fruit and vegetables to be reimbursed, then it's important to make sure that the money automatically goes to the growers.

Have you looked into this?

[Scot Davidson, Conservative, York—Simcoe, ON]

First of all, on your comments about fresh produce farmers and their industry, I always say, especially when I take people out into my riding and into the Holland Marsh, “Look at their hands.” I can tell you right now that, if you look at the hands of farmers in my riding, you see that they're all callused. We call it “marsh dust”. That comes up, and when the harvest is on, all you see are the whites of peoples' eyes. These people are literally working until midnight, with the lights on, harvesting. It is a stressful job.

To go back to your comments about climate change and people being worried about how they're going to get the rain they need or how they're going to get.... Once they lose a season, there's no redo. That crop's year is done, so back to—