Agriculture Committee on Oct. 23rd, 2023

[Dr. Catherine Filejski]

Is that for PFAS? Okay.

We share the concerns about environmental contamination and all of the issues that surround PFAS. What I think we're trying to be very cautious about is to build on the experience of other jurisdictions that have already gone down the road of doing a class-wide ban using an extremely broad definition of what a PFAS is. Bans that have been implemented have had to be walked back because people have realized that all of a sudden they were not going to have inhalational anaesthetics, and they were all of a sudden not going to have certain non-steroidal anti-inflammatories because these compounds would now fall into this very broad definition.

I think we should look at the experience of other jurisdictions and take into consideration very carefully how we define PFAS and what rationale is. Also, we must make sure.... All of our drugs and all the packaging we use in our drugs have to go through very rigorous regulatory requirements as it is, which includes their management throughout their life cycle from product inception right through to disposal of remaining product and packaging.

When we look at developing PFAS regulations in this country, we need to be very careful, I think, that we don't have unintended consequences from those bans that will then essentially really curtail our ability to have access to products, both human and veterinary, with respect to drugs and vaccines.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

Thank you, Ms. Filejski and Mr. Perron.

Lastly, Mr. MacGregor, you have the floor for six minutes.

I know you can do it in six minutes. If you do need a little bit extra, Mr. MacGregor, I can give it to you.

Go ahead.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

How very generous you are, Mr. Chair. Thank you very much.

Dr. Vaillancourt, I would like to turn to you. You have my apologies if you have covered this in previous answers. I just want to make sure that, for my sake and for our eventual committee report, we get some clarity.

I think you have looked at the effect of surveillance cameras on biosecurity protocols on farms. I think you concluded that those methods did fail to improve long-term compliance. I was taking a few notes during your opening statement. You talked about the need for investment in technology to ensure compliance. You may have heard in the first hour that I was asking the CFA about the voluntary protocols in place and how we learn from previous mistakes and how we ensure compliance in the future.

Can you tell us specifically what technologies you are referring to other than surveillance cameras? Can you just delve into that a little bit more deeply for me, please?

[Dr. Jean-Pierre Vaillancourt]

Yes, briefly, we can use sensors. For example, we use microchips in boots essentially. If people do not change their boots when they need to go from one zone to another zone, in the anteroom that will be detected. If they do not activate the Purell dispenser to clean their hands, that can also be recorded. It can be associated with them. To get in they could have a magnetic card to identify themselves. We have ways of gathering data using that information, and then we do training to improve compliance.

You can say it's mandatory and you need to have this or that, but we're dealing with human beings and human nature. You need to work on technologies that are human nature-proof. I didn't say idiot-proof but human nature-proof. Using sensors is one good way to go.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

That will almost certainly aid the CFIA in after-the-fact investigations. If they're trying to trace how a disease outbreak happened, that data would be very helpful. We may not be in favour of making these compliance rules mandatory, but what would you like to see as a follow-up to that important data gathering?

How do we ensure compliance from the lessons learned from, hopefully, the widespread use of that technology?

[Dr. Jean-Pierre Vaillancourt]

I mentioned technology at the farm per se, but we already have companies that can use sensors and they have geofencing around sites. People have an application on their phone, and when they get in, we know who they are, when they're coming in, the risks they may represent and all that.

We need to look into this because we're looking at big data here, but if we do it properly it could be, of course, very confidential. We need to respect that because growers would be very concerned if you had Big Brother gathering information like this, but it can be done with them basically in control of that information and using it for regional biosecurity.

You cannot just biosecure each farm one at a time. You need to look at it at a regional level.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

That's a good point to make.

Also, in exchanges with colleagues in previous interventions, you talked about how, when establishing a new farm, you have to pay attention to the distance between a new farm and an existing one.

I want to turn to the subject of backyard flocks, because in my neck of the woods, it's a very rural area and people love keeping chickens. They love being able to go out every morning and collect their eggs. People feel very strongly attached to that farming practice. They feel it's a very important part of our local food security. How do you envision those two worlds living side by side, where we are both paying attention to the very real biosecurity concerns that may be present from backyard flocks, especially with avian influenza, and also trying to make sure that people's sense of food security and providing for their own families is also not disturbed?

What could we reasonably do to alleviate those problems?

[Dr. Jean-Pierre Vaillancourt]

The first thing is that the people with backyard flocks tend not to look at the commercial operations as being necessarily friendly, because they look at them often as the bad guys. There's a place here for provincial and possibly federal governments—even municipal governments—to come in and help.

What I'm talking about here is to register these backyard flocks. You have to register your dog. You have to prove that your dog has its rabies vaccine, its medal and all that. Why shouldn't backyard flocks demonstrate that they are vaccinated against different pathogens? If we know where they are and who they are, then we can provide information to improve the health of these backyard flocks.

You're right. They're there. They're never going to disappear. Research has shown that if there's not an epidemiological link, like somebody working with a backyard flock and then going straight into a commercial barn, it's not that big of a risk per se. However, they are a reservoir, so there's a place for the government there.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

Thank you very much, Mr. MacGregor.

Thank you very much to all of our witnesses. We appreciate your testimony.

We are going in camera for a couple of minutes, colleagues, so we'll excuse our witnesses.

Those of you who are online, you're free to go, and thanks again.

Members, just stick around for a couple of minutes.

[Proceedings continue in camera]