Evidence of meeting #8 for Agriculture and Agri-Food in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was mussell.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Bloc
Yves Perron Bloc Berthier—Maskinongé, QC
Okay.
I'll turn to Dr. Ronholm again.
In terms of research, you say that it's important to focus on research and development.
Do you think research and development gets adequate funding in Canada?
Assistant Professor, Faculty of Agricultural and Environmental Sciences, McGill University, As an Individual
It's a good question.
I'm happy with the finance models in Canada. I think there are a lot of good programs, and I think we do very well in punching above our weight in terms of research funding and research development in this country. That being said, I was just on a CIHR panel where there were some amazing research projects that could take us into amazing medical advances that did not get funded this round because there was simply no money.
Yes, research and development could use more money.
Bloc
Yves Perron Bloc Berthier—Maskinongé, QC
Okay.
In general, do you think there's a need for an investment policy for all agri‑food processing infrastructures in the country? Some witnesses are asking us to develop some sort of massive investment policy because of a significant backlog in this area.
Assistant Professor, Faculty of Agricultural and Environmental Sciences, McGill University, As an Individual
I'm wondering if I'm understanding your question. You're saying that agricultural collectives like Dairy Farmers of Canada and Egg Farmers of Canada.... Is it investments from them or investments from the government?
Bloc
Yves Perron Bloc Berthier—Maskinongé, QC
In fact, agri‑food processing plants would need modernization of mechanization, updating of computerization, to partly solve the labour problem. There would have been a lack of investment for many years.
What do you think about a financial incentive from the government? This incentive could also come from other stakeholders.
What's your opinion on this?
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Kody Blois
I'm sorry, Mr. Perron, but your time is up.
Mr. MacGregor is next.
However, before I give him the floor, I'd like to tell Dr. Mussell that he can come back to testify at a future committee meeting, because I know that all members want to hear his testimony.
We will have a future meeting. I have been told that your headset is quite worn. It is difficult for our translators, but I welcome you to stay on the meeting to listen. We can certainly agree to have you back on the 24th for members who want to ask questions, if they choose.
Mr. MacGregor, it's over to you.
NDP
Alistair MacGregor NDP Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC
That's great. Thank you so much, Chair.
I will direct my first questions to Cammy Lockwood.
Cammy, I am so happy that you were able to join our committee today to provide an account of what your farm has gone through.
You wrote an open and honest letter recently detailing what your farm went through in 2021 from the massive heat wave we experienced in late June. We had consecutive days going over 40°C, which, on Vancouver Island, is completely unprecedented. Just a few months later, there was the never-ending onslaught of rain that we experienced. You detailed quite honestly the effect this had on your mental health and so on.
Could you expand a bit on what you covered in that letter? How does that impact farmers, who are on the front lines of climate change? How does it pertain to our larger conversation about the stress this puts on our supply chains?
Owner-Operator, Lockwood Farms, As an Individual
Well, it is difficult, because we went through a lot in 2021. With the heatwave, we had to pull everything that we had to deal with the crisis in front of us without any support. We had offers of support, but nobody knew or understood how to help us. We were faced with the challenge of keeping our animals alive when we knew they would simply perish in that heat. We used everything we had—all our education, all our experience and all our knowledge—to mitigate that risk. We rigged up irrigation and we put it on top of our barn roof, which meant that in that 40°C-plus heat my husband was on top of a barn roof at great risk to his health to try to keep our animals alive. Even though we did so, our well was unable to keep up with the amount of water that was required of us. It got to the point where we knew we had done everything we possibly could to keep our birds alive and we just had to sit and wait and hope. Two days later, after the temperatures had finally dropped, I walked into the barn and I heard the birds clucking as they should and, honestly, I broke down and cried, complete full-body sobs, knowing that we'd made it through and we were going to be okay.
After that, the crisis was just continually on our doorstep, because we went from that heatwave through to a full season of wildfires. Our farm was never under an evacuation order, but neighbouring farms were. Imagine trying to leave animals. We can't. Evacuation is not something that farmers can reasonably do. We take the health and the welfare of our animals so seriously. We saw that with the floods as well, where farmers were left with tasks that, honestly, the Canadian military refused to do. Farmers took them up and they took care of their animals when nobody else would. I believe it's morally reprehensible not to care for animals. As I said, it's just so important.
Also during the floods, in the Lower Mainland in particular, there was a very strong lack of communication among all levels of government. That is definitely something I would like to see this committee address: how to develop communication among the federal, provincial, local and first nation governments to adequately deal with a crisis. Farmers were hearing different stories from different levels of government and their other arms, different stories from the municipal police forces and the RCMP and the Canadian military. Some checkpoints they were allowed to go through, and some checkpoints they were not. It was very difficult to navigate that.
In larger terms, in terms of the mental health of farmers, honestly, we're taking a step back and looking at our business and trying to decide how we can continue it, how we can continue to farm in these conditions. Again, it's nothing that a pill can fix. It's nothing that adequate support can fix when the challenges are so great. What that actually means it that there will be no food on Canadian tables. The Sumas Prairie, the whole Lower Mainland region, which produces over 50% of British Columbia's food supply, had significant impacts. We had empty grocery store shelves, shelves with no dairy, because most of the cows in the province are located in that region.
We are hearing about the broader impacts of the climate crisis in developing nations closer to the equator, but I can say for sure that it's here. We are feeling it. In a crisis situation, sometimes it's hard to identify the help we need and what supports we need. We just know we need help.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Kody Blois
Thank you to both of you.
It's now Mr. Lehoux's turn for five minutes.
We're listening, Mr. Lehoux.
Conservative
Richard Lehoux Conservative Beauce, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I'd like to thank the witnesses for being here this afternoon.
Dr. Ronholm, you said earlier that, in the research you were doing, it was possible to find alternatives.
Having worked in agriculture my whole life, I know it's important to be careful with antibiotic use, but what alternative do we have?
Your research is currently under way, but how quickly will you be able to present commercially available products in a concrete way?
Assistant Professor, Faculty of Agricultural and Environmental Sciences, McGill University, As an Individual
That's a great question. Thank you so much.
Hopefully it will be fast. My lab has advanced to the point where we have probiotic products that were isolated from healthy Canadian dairy farm cows. In the petri dish they can kill a variety of pathogens that cause mastitis. It works in situ.
The next step is to scale it up to a viable product. We do have companies that are interested in doing that with us. If I were to make a guess, I would say we will have products on the market within 10 years, if things go well for certain replacements.
Conservative
Richard Lehoux Conservative Beauce, QC
Thank you, Dr. Ronholm.
Along the same lines, we know that there is an increasing number of imported products coming into Canada. I imagine that the research you do here in Canada must also be done elsewhere in the world.
How do you coordinate of all this? How do you see products being moved from one continent to another? Are we ensuring that the same rules apply to everyone?
Assistant Professor, Faculty of Agricultural and Environmental Sciences, McGill University, As an Individual
That's a major problem on the market right now. No one is taking care that the same rules apply to everyone.
My first job out of graduate school was testing imported products at Health Canada for antimicrobial resistance. A shocking number of products coming into Canada had antimicrobial resistance in the products.
Research similar to what I'm doing is being done in different areas internationally, but it is a patchwork. Some countries, like the Nordic countries, care very much about antimicrobial resistance. They have stronger laws than Canada does on their farms for antibiotics. Some countries have much more relaxed laws and use a lot more antibiotics in their farming than Canada does.
Conservative
Richard Lehoux Conservative Beauce, QC
Thank you, Dr. Ronholm.
In the same spirit, with respect to products coming in from other countries right now, are we aware of the capacity of the Canadian Food Inspection Agency?
You are doing an outstanding job in laboratory analysis and research. What kind of control do we have over the products? Do you think we have enough control at entry?
Assistant Professor, Faculty of Agricultural and Environmental Sciences, McGill University, As an Individual
Yes, I think new policies were introduced not too long ago that did give the CFIA a fair bit of teeth in terms of seizing products with traces of antibiotics in them. I do think that is a common cause of food being rejected at the border.
That being said, we don't always monitor for resistant organisms, as opposed to traces of antibiotics in the food. Canada does a good job, through CIPARS, of monitoring resistant pathogens that are circulating.
Conservative
Richard Lehoux Conservative Beauce, QC
Dr. Ronholm, what I'd like for you to tell me is if we should slightly increase the number of food controls upon entry into Canada.
Assistant Professor, Faculty of Agricultural and Environmental Sciences, McGill University, As an Individual
I don't know if I have a good answer for that. I'm not familiar with the number of seizures that Canada has. I'm not privy to the current inspection procedures from the CFIA.
Conservative
Richard Lehoux Conservative Beauce, QC
Mr. Chair, as I understand it, we can't ask Dr. Mussell any questions.
I'll continue with you, Dr. Ronholm.
The whole issue of antibiotic resistance is important. You say that the amount of money allocated to research is sufficient, but could the Government of Canada add to it to help you speed up the process?
Conservative
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Kody Blois
Thank you, Dr. Ronholm.
Mr. Turnbull, you have the floor for five minutes.
Liberal
Ryan Turnbull Liberal Whitby, ON
Thanks, Chair.
Thanks to all the panellists. I really appreciate the depth of the experience and expertise and the diversity that's represented across our panel today.
I want to start with Ms. Lockwood.
First, I really admire your business and your farm model, the way you've described it. I checked out your website.
Would it be safe to say that you differentiate your small-scale farm by having a commitment to the highest quality, sustainability and ethical practices within your business model?
Owner-Operator, Lockwood Farms, As an Individual
Yes, I believe that is safe to say.